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4FG Black As Duplex? (Read 8185 times)

.22-5-40 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 828 Joined: Feb 13^th, 2010	4FG Black As Duplex? Oct 3^rd, 2011 at 1:06pm	Print Post
	Hello, everyone. I have heard of some using 4FG black next to primer as a duplex-load. In a .25-25 Stevens, I wonder how much 4FG I should use? How much in say a .40-70 straight? Does this finer black clean up the bore any..as compared to a smokeless du-plex load? I am using 3FG Swiss in the .25, and Swiss 1 1/2 in the .40. Thanks alot!


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7728 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #1 - Oct 3^rd, 2011 at 1:40pm	Print Post
	My opinion is use the 4F if match rules require black powder. If not small charge of smokless is going to be more effective keeping the bore clean. Boats


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MikeT Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 295 Location: St. Cloud, MN Joined: Sep 7^th, 2005	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #2 - Oct 3^rd, 2011 at 8:54pm	Print Post
	At one time I had some slow Elephant powder and when I duplexed it with 3Fg Goex, it shot very well. The best & most consistant load was 60% slow powder next to the primer and 40% fast on top. Once I used up the Elephant, I never went with duplexed BP again, toooo much work! Keep on hav'n fun! MikeT


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mjs3240 Participating Member Offline Posts: 48 Joined: Jan 28^th, 2007	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #3 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 9:22pm	Print Post
	I have a little experience using 4Fg Swiss powder loaded in a 32-40. One of my rifles has a 10" twist barrel and I filled the case to the mouth and breech seated a 281 grain bullet designed by Dan Theodore. I shoot BPCR with this rifle. I bought a 1 pound can of Swiss 4Fg powder one year at Raton to see if I could get any more velocity. In August of 2004 I fired 10 shots each with 49 g Swiss 3Fg behind the 281g breech seated bullet and 10 loads of 49g 4Fg Swiss behind the same bullet. My results were 1326 FPS with ES of 31 and SD of 10 for the 3Fg and 1248FPS with an ES of 96 and SD of 28 for the 4Fg Swiss. In this instance using 4Fg Swiss actually resulted in lower velocity.


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 12348 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #4 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 9:36pm	Print Post
	mjs3240 wrote on Oct 4^th, 2011 at 9:22pm: I have a little experience using 4Fg Swiss powder loaded in a 32-40. One of my rifles has a 10" twist barrel and I filled the case to the mouth and breech seated a 281 grain bullet designed by Dan Theodore. I shoot BPCR with this rifle. I bought a 1 pound can of Swiss 4Fg powder one year at Raton to see if I could get any more velocity. In August of 2004 I fired 10 shots each with 49 g Swiss 3Fg behind the 281g breech seated bullet and 10 loads of 49g 4Fg Swiss behind the same bullet. My results were 1326 FPS with ES of 31 and SD of 10 for the 3Fg and 1248FPS with an ES of 96 and SD of 28 for the 4Fg Swiss. In this instance using 4Fg Swiss actually resulted in lower velocity. 281 grain bullet/32/40? Did you mean 38/55? Joe.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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mjs3240 Participating Member Offline Posts: 48 Joined: Jan 28^th, 2007	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #5 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 9:43pm	Print Post
	No, I have a Mould made by Steve Brooks that cast's a 32 caliber bullet weighing 281 grains. I have two 32-40's I shoot it in. One is a 10" twist Hepburn and the other is an 8" twist Stevens 44 1/2. I use it to knock over rams at 500 meters.


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #6 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 9:44pm	Print Post
	I would tend to think that a 10" twist would be able to stabilize a 281gr. bullet in the 32-40. A unique combination but it should be doable. J.Louis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #7 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 9:49pm	Print Post
	mjs3240 how did you come up with the concept to use a 1-8 and 1-10 twist in your 32-40, I find it to be very interesting and your thinking is way out of the box of which I truly admire. J.Louis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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mjs3240 Participating Member Offline Posts: 48 Joined: Jan 28^th, 2007	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #8 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 10:57pm	Print Post
	Actually Dan Theodore came up with the concept and myself and a friend of mine have had rifles built using his reamer.


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #9 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 11:11pm	Print Post
	mjs3240 are you using Dan's alloy a combination of 1.5 tin, 1.5 antimony and 97 lead and if so how is it working out for you. J.Louis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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mjs3240 Participating Member Offline Posts: 48 Joined: Jan 28^th, 2007	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #10 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 11:17pm	Print Post
	No, I am using 20-1. I have done quite well with the Stevens 8-1 twist. I actually shot my best Ram score at Sacramento Shooting Center a few years ago when I hit and knocked down 9 out of 10 rams at 500 meters. I am just now getting back into shooting having only shot 3 matches in the past 2 years. I have purchased a CPA 44 1/2 with a 32-40 and a .22 barrel and I plan on trying my hand at shooting some Schutzen matches.


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 12348 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #11 - Oct 5^th, 2011 at 5:10am	Print Post
	Holy cow! Thats a long .32 bullet. Joe.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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32 ballard xl Full Member Offline Stand on your hind legs, and shoot like a man. Posts: 129 Location: Akwesasne, New York Joined: Feb 20^th, 2011	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #12 - Oct 5^th, 2011 at 8:59am	Print Post
	I wonder if that very long 32 bullet isn't why he's able to knock over rams at 500 meters. A way to describe the effect might be "dwell time" on the target. 38-55's had problems with rams until they started using those very long 330 grain bullets. Very interesting, thanks for sharing!!

	Ballards are best!
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #13 - Oct 5^th, 2011 at 11:06am	Print Post
	mjs3240 are located in Ca. and if so we are pretty active in regards to hosting Schuetzen matches. We have one scheduled for this Sat. and the last one for the year is scheduled for the third Sat. in Nov. If you are interested send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will have you included in our match invitation e-mail list. J.Louis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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mjs3240 Participating Member Offline Posts: 48 Joined: Jan 28^th, 2007	Re: 4FG Black As Duplex? Reply #14 - Oct 5^th, 2011 at 11:27am	Print Post
	J Louis, PM sent. Thanks, MJS


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