Maj. Roberts refers numerous times to the practice of breech seating bullets about 1/16" ahead of the loaded case.  Does anyone follow that practice, or something similar, today?  To raise this question is a bit risky as some have commented in other forums that the air gap created by that practice could destroy a rifle.  Have the available black powders changed in some way from what was available in the 19th century?  I realize most shooters on this for use smokeless but I thought this might be the best place to look for an answer.

Sorry if this information is already posted somewhere, I could not find reference to in using the search facility.

Thanks, Joe.  Yes, I'm shooting a new Win 1885 in 45-70.  I use either Swiss 1.5 or Goex.  Do you know if using an over powder veggie wad would be detrimental with a 1/4" gap between bullet & case?

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Air gap refers to the distance between the bullet base and the powder charge. So no you wouldnt want to do that because you would have almost a full case of smokeless powder. 

If you mean the distance between the end of the case and the base of the bullet, yes.  Some of my rifles have about a half inch space when breech seated. 

               Joe. 

If you load Fixed black powder  best to put the bullet against the powder, some compress some vibrate some drop tube, Wads have as many variations some use them some don't. All these variables are looking for maximum accuracy and each has it's supporters.

Breech seating no way around it you will leave air space between the bullet and powder. Most use a wad on top of the powder since the black powder will spill into the action otherwise.

Old advice on air space is probably good for thin wall black powder muzzle loading shotguns or muskets.  Strong barrel cartridge Schuetzen breech seating everybody leaves air space.

Boats

RSW wrote on Sep 15^th, 2011 at 10:28pm:


One of the issues of the BPCN describes this technique as a way to reduce case stretching issues with breech seated BP loads.  I've yet to try it, but will when my new CPA arrives 

Chris.

As a rule less in the case better off you are, wads more than anything else. I breech seat smokless in the 32/40 without wads. You can pick the rifle up and insert without spilling. It's less than half full of 4227

Black in the 38/55 barrel I fill the case all the way up and have to use a wad to keep from spilling powder in the action.

It's never rung the chamber and don't expect it to. If it does will get CPA to cut it off and re-chamber, Can't shoot it breech with black powder and avoid air space  Who knows may like it better a few inches shorter. 

Boats

RoyB
From your photo, the lands appear to be groove diameter at the end of the throat and taper at about 4 degrees to bore diameter, that’s your leade. For breech seating, you probably need a bullet that is bore diameter at the front bearing band with succeeding bearing bands increasing in steps of 2 thousandths to approximately 1 thousandth over groove diameter for the rear three bearing bands. That bullet “taper” will ensure it stays centered in the barrel as you breech seat.
I have had great success with custom moulds from Steve Brooks but there are others fully capable of making you a mould to fit your needs. If you do a search on this site and the Shiloh online forum, I think you will find a good bullet profile for your rifle by Dan Theodore. He as done a lot bullet design work for rifles such as yours.

Paul Matthews designed a designed tapered Pope-style bullet for the 45-70  500+ grains for Lyman.   The initial mould was a flat nosed nosepour in a fairly small block.  Warpage was a problem with some so Lyman discontinued it.  they then revised it in a larger block with a basepour and a pointy-nose.  I have both and that is what I shot in my light weight sporter  with a prototype Badger 16"/1 barrel.  Breech seating worked very well for me w/smokeless.  I won;t deny that recoil got your attention.  But I shot very low 240 Schoyens with it,  and never did as well with my other CF guns