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218 Bee (Read 6070 times)

Nero Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1026 Location: NZ Joined: Jun 1^st, 2006	218 Bee Sep 6^th, 2011 at 4:26am	Print Post
	I would be very interested to hear from any experimenters out there about your experience in how well an improved 218 Bee will shoot. Worth doing instead of a standard Bee? Does the shoulder angle make much difference. What sort of velocities and its accuracy. Thought to use a 1 in 14 twist but what would be the optimum barrel lenght for this cartridge. Regards, Roly.


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7728 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: 218 Bee Reply #1 - Sep 6^th, 2011 at 12:38pm	Print Post
	Lot of the old "improved" cartridges performance was due to overloading, something that could have been done with the original configuration. In PO Ackleys book he has some pretty good velocity claims for the Mashburn Bee which is probably the one you are referring too. He says 16 inch twist and 3319 fps with a 45 gr bullet 3300 fps with a 50 grain. That's a 100 feet faster than I push my 722 bolt .222 Remington same bullet. Think I could get 3300 or more out of the .222 at the expense of case life. Guessing the Bee would benifit from a faster twist. at least a 12. I think my 722 Remington is a 12 .223 AR's built for 69 gr bullets are mostly 9 inch twist with the VLD bullet AR guns 7 inch twist, although it's mostly a case of pushing the limit on range with a .22 as far as possible. Most of the old 22 wildcats used 16 because that's what was available, built for the .22 rimfire. Some years ago spent a lot of time with a Contender Carbine in Improved Hornet. Case was straighter and a much better shape to re-load and not need a lot of re-sizing. Actual velocity not a lot higher than a regular factory Hornet. I thought it was a useful cartridge and liked the fact I had something special not run of the mill Hornet. If regular varmint bullets in the 50 gr range are intended out to 250 yards or so I would look for 12 inch twist and build up a nice rifle and see. Barrel can be about as long or short as you like, no need for over 24 inches though. Bet it would be a good shooter Boats


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7728 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: 218 Bee Reply #2 - Sep 6^th, 2011 at 4:33pm	Print Post
	After posting my last remembered something else published on the .218 Bee. Mid 1980's Kimber made some M 82 bolt actions chambered for the Bee, Layne Simpson wrote it up in some detail, reprinted in Rifles Rifle and Small Game Rifles and Cartridges. The Kimber Bee was a 14 inch twist it turns out and he though it best with 40 and 45 grain bullets. Simpson did not get any PO Ackley velocities either. His 50 gr bullet loads were about 2700 fps whole lot off the Ackley data. I guess you could load one pretty hot but hold a 32/20 parent case in your hand next to a .222 or 223 Remington there is a substantial difference in the heft and weight. His loads were worked up to give at least 12 loadings per case with no sign of primer pocket problems. No doubt the Bee ought to be used well under 3000 fps. Simpson guesses the improved Bee should produce 100 fps more than the factory chamber. Not a negative though plenty of good use for under 3000 fps Varmint rifles. Article is 4 pages long if you are building a Bee worth having Boats


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32 ballard xl Full Member Offline Stand on your hind legs, and shoot like a man. Posts: 129 Location: Akwesasne, New York Joined: Feb 20^th, 2011	Re: 218 Bee Reply #3 - Sep 6^th, 2011 at 9:57pm	Print Post
	I've had 2 Mashburn bee's in my lifetime. I thought they gave a significent velocity advantage at first, but the brass was not holding up real well. I think the loads I got out of Ackley's book were too hot. I didn't have a chronograph in those days. I used the 45 grain sierra spitzer with some success, but backed down to maby 2900-3000. Whatever it was it reached out pretty good.

	Ballards are best!
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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7728 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: 218 Bee Reply #4 - Sep 7^th, 2011 at 1:07am	Print Post
	My experience with the K Hornet was the straighter case gave better case life. Held more powder which is an issue with Hornets and was about 100 fps faster. 100 feet is right much in percentage on a Hornets velocity. When Layne Simpson said in the article Mashburn Bee was 100 ft faster it was opinion not from actual testing. Might have been more. In any event like 32 Ballard says 2900-3000 feet is a pretty useful Varmint cartridge. Guys varmint hunt today with all sorts of high tech rigs. You ever seen some built on AR platforms ? Like off a space ship and push .223 to the limit. Tell you what they won't hit more critters first shot than a nice single shot in a reasonable caliber Boats


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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3987 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: 218 Bee Reply #5 - Sep 7^th, 2011 at 6:35am	Print Post
	boats wrote on Sep 7^th, 2011 at 1:07am: My experience ... ... Guys varmint hunt today with all sorts of high tech rigs. You ever seen some built on AR platforms ? Like off a space ship and push .223 to the limit. Tell you what they won't hit more critters first shot than a nice single shot in a reasonable caliber Boats Yup. And if I can get the 405Win shooting well enough (read: if I can shoot it well enough) with plain based cast bullets, it's going prairie dog hunting next May.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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tim_s Oldtimer Offline Posts: 830 Location: 13066 Joined: Oct 11^th, 2006	Re: 218 Bee Reply #6 - Sep 7^th, 2011 at 11:39am	Print Post
	The Mashburn's are a big improvement over standard 218. The biggest issue with most improved versions of early 20th century cartridges was the understanding that gradual sloping shoulder angles were far less useful than cases somewhat squared up with sharper shoulders as pressures increased. I'd go no less than 24" and it would really come into it's own if you consider slugs in the 35-45 gr range, which when combined with some of these newer fast powders can result in impressive ballistics while staying safe.

	“ I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you”
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