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SSShooter
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Original High Wall Value?
Aug 31st, 2011 at 5:47pm
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Have been offered an original 1890 (48xxx) panel-side High Wall with a 3 1/2 octagon barrel in 32-40 with very good case-color on the receiver and good brown on the barrel with no rust or pitting and a really excellent bore. Has a Lyman $17 (old) in a front dovetail and an empty dovetail for a rear sightl and an oldert model Lyman tang sight. No set trigger, straight grip stock (all wood is original) with a semi-Schuetzen butt-plate, which I suspect may not be original. The rifle is in really great condition. Any idea on a value? Thanks.
  
Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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MAD MIKE
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #1 - Sep 1st, 2011 at 3:12am
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Not without photos
  
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #2 - Sep 1st, 2011 at 5:49am
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Little things make a big difference.  Some Lyman tangs are worth 100 bucks others 400 dollars.  Smallest change to the rifle from original will make substantial difference in collector value. Fairly plan rifle like you describe is not as expensive as less common special order guns.

If the rifle looks good shoots fine but is made up of non original or altered parts, You could price a new one from somebody like CSharps and use it as a base line.   

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ssdave
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #3 - Sep 1st, 2011 at 9:50am
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If the case color is absolutely original, and the rest of the finishes also, outside of the buttplate, I'd expect to pay $1300 to $1800 for the rifle.  Depends on condition, entirely.  Pictures would help.

dave
  
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #4 - Sep 1st, 2011 at 11:29am
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+1 to ssdave's evaluation.  I think he pretty much nailed it for the market in this part of the country as well, although you might see folks asking a lot more.  The "semi-Schuetzen" butt plate you mentioned... is that the one that just goes onto the same inletting as a standard crescent, the one some folks call a "small Swiss" or an "interchangeable Swiss" plate?  If original, that plate is a most desireable option.  There are lots of small features to inspect in order to determine originality of a particular gun, none of them fool proof, but collectively they will give the viewer a "feel" for how righteous the gun is.

Froggie
  
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SSShooter
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #5 - Sep 1st, 2011 at 4:49pm
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OK....... here are three pic's. Barrel is 30". I'll measure it to see for sure which one it is. After some closer examination, I feel sure this is an all-original rifle, including the stock and butt-plate, with the possible exception of the Lyman tang-sight. As it is an 1890 rifle, it could be original, as that was the year that Lyman sights could be ordered on a High Wall from the factory. Same for the front sight. The wood is in excellent condition. No cracks or splits or oil seepage, etc. I can post additional pic's of anything in particular, if that would help. The part that is most impressive is the wonderful condition of the bore. I'm not sure this rifle was ever fired with BP. If so, then it was cleaned meticuously each time.
  
Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #6 - Sep 1st, 2011 at 4:50pm
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Another pic.
  
Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #7 - Sep 1st, 2011 at 4:50pm
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And, a third.
  
Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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stebbinsgr
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #8 - Sep 1st, 2011 at 6:55pm
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If you want the original details for this rifle contact the Cody Museum.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

The cost for a single letter is $60.  It will have the date of manufacture, when it left the Winchester warehouse, accessories on the rifle and if it was sent in for repairs if a record exists.  It is "added value" if the rifle is all original parts.

The butt plate is an original Winchester small Swiss.
  
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #9 - Sep 1st, 2011 at 8:59pm
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Based on the photo, I would pay $1800 for that rifle without examining it more, and maybe up to $2200 if it letters to that configuration and I could look at it carefully to verify condition.   

I think the buttplate is original.  I have owned a rifle that lettered with that buttplate before, but mine was nickeled.  Wood looks a trifle shiny, contrasts with the black streaks at the wrist from oil staining from the action.  I'd want to look close at that.  Other than that, looks like a nice original.  Tang sight is the more desirable of the available Lymans.

dave
  
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #10 - Sep 1st, 2011 at 9:05pm
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I've e-mailed the museum in Cody and will pay the $60 for the letter. As stated, if the rifle is correct, it can only add to the value. Thanks.
  
Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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MAD MIKE
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #11 - Sep 2nd, 2011 at 3:57am
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   Those butt plates were all nickeled & if I remember correctly the 3 1/2 barrel size came out much later in production.          ...MIKE...
  
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #12 - Sep 2nd, 2011 at 6:00am
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Mike
I think he means a #3 barrel that is 1/2 oct.
  
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #13 - Sep 2nd, 2011 at 12:12pm
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As my annual western trip with my brother is in November (hog hunting with the 38-56 in TX) and on over to NM, etc., I joined the Cody Firearms Museum and got the 40 free 'look-ups' for Winchester & Marlin (used up four, today) plus admission to the other museums we will visit on our trip. Should have the info by the end of the day. 

The barrel is definitely a 30-inch #3, as marked on the flat just in front of the forearm tip. Campbell's books on the 1885 are an excellent resource. Every time I read it I learn all sorts of new things I promptly forget.  Wink Nice thing about CRS is all the new things one gets to learn over and over.
  
Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #14 - Sep 3rd, 2011 at 1:46am
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MAD MIKE wrote on Sep 2nd, 2011 at 3:57am:
  Those butt plates were all nickeled & if I remember correctly the 3 1/2 barrel size came out much later in production.          ...MIKE...


Mike,

     I have an original brass butt plate on one of my rifles that shows no signs of ever having been plated, so I think that feature may be righteous.  What I did notice was the Lyman 102 tang sight on this rifle, which was not introduced for many years after that rifle was made.  It's a valuable sight and a nice addition, though.

Froggie
  
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #15 - Sep 3rd, 2011 at 6:45am
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Per the Winchester records at the Cody Firearms Museum:
Win. 1885, SN 49xxx
Serial number applied: 5-27-1891
Date into warehouse: 6-18-1891
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 38/56
Barrel: Octagon
Weight: #3
Length: 28 inches
Trigger: Plain
Date shipped: 6-18-1891
Order: 6030

So, the barrel was changed to a Winchester #3 barrel, 30", chambered in 32/40 at some point. Based on the condition of the barrel, am guessing it was long ago. I bought it anyway and will pass along to someone who will treat it right. Since it came out my local gunshop, I was afraid that someone would pick it up that would not appreciate its history or what it is. I'll likely keep that sight for my Marlin 1894 in 25-20, which I will be restoring over the next couple of years.

« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:01am by SSShooter »  
Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: Original High Wall Value?
Reply #16 - Sep 3rd, 2011 at 4:40pm
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After giving this rifle some thought, as the barrel is not the original, I might change it and the trigger to make this into my BPCR silhouette gun. 

Any idea what this Winchester #3 barrel, 30" in 32-40 is worth? Bore is like new and, while a nice brown, the barrel has zero rust or pitting with excellent lettering.
  
Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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