I've added pictures of Ballard, that I believe was made up to be a #4 But, I'm not sure because of the barrel. 

Yes, I bought it as a #4 before I learned of the basic 3 line configuration on this very forum. But, the barrel still has me confused. You can see in the pictures that it's very nice and cold blued. The inside is just as nice as the outside and has a .319 groove dia. It has only the front dove tail cut and a Winchester globe sight . It's chambered in 32/40 with the reversible firing pin as the third line indicates. Breech block, barrel and frame are numbered together as seen. I don't know hoe visable it is but, there is a very faint block lettered B stamped forward of the serial number in a larger size.

The main reason I'm posting this is that, if the barrel isn't Ballard, I want to drill and tap it for scope blocks to work up some light loads for it to be shot with the 319247 165 gr bullet.

Frank

Brian,
I had noticed that but, the scirpt looks remarkably the same. The receiver had to be done differently because of the curved surface, maybe with a special stamp, based on how even they are.

Frank

I was very disappointed after I found the cast frame and I asked Val about it. He said that he didn't think it could be original because of the caliber and the frame. That's why I'm posting this, so, that if it's the consensus that it's not original, I will drill and tap it so it can be worked out for accuracy with a scope and my 319247 or 319273 mold.

Frank

I'd vote with replaced barrel as well.  I wouldn't hesitate to scope that rifle and get as much use out of it as my old eyes would allow.  Just remember that though the barrel is new and modern, the action isn't, and when you add that it is a cast action, it is essential that you limit yourself to very mild loads.  Nice problem to have, though! 

Froggie

Remember that the barrel numbers would have had no, or very little wear as they are under the forearm and not subject to wear. The numbers look like they should to me. The only question I have is when you run a finger over the barrel numbers are the edges raised at all? They look it in the pictures and if they are I would agree that it is a fake. Or the numbers could have been freshened up by an engraver. And Marlin did put 32-40 in cast actions too. Not many but some.
Can you post pictures of the inside of that frame as in under the chamber area?
Mike

Well I'll toss my opinion in here also. If it were an original that had been refinished and reblued the area under the forearm would be very nice original bluing, as it would be protected. The cold bluing seems equal on all, and thus the numbers under the forearm would not have the raised edges of a fresh stamp once someone polished or sanded off the finish to reblue. In this case the sharp edges tell me it was stamped after it was blued, or it was bare when stamped and then blued.
Finally something about the location didn't seem right. I just finished pulling the forearms off 15 Ballards and every one had the serial number stamped within about an inch of the forearm screw. None back near the tulip at the chamber area, as your gun's barrel is.
I'm calling it a aftermarket myself.

Ok, I'll call it a "done deal" and it was as I exspected (but, one can alway hope). BP, the more that I look at that 0 the more it stands out, too.

Thank you again,

Frank

And remember if it is a cast action do your face and hands a favour and just shoot black in it, no smokeless.
I was teasing a good friend yesterday about work and he said well in your occupation you have to be safe, and I said yes and I still have all my fingers just a couple are crooked. I was a Master Blaster and still love playing with the stuff including munitions. But what he said next really got me as he said,  Mike, I lost 4 fingers on one hand shooting a .28 caliber percussion rifle,  and that was with 40 grains of black and a patch, no slug and the barrel came unglued. Then I asked and I bet the barrel looked great and he said yes it did.
Would not want the same to happen to any of us, hopefully we are all getting smarter as we age.
Happy Shooting
Mike

mwhite49 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2011 at 11:51pm:


Wish I was Mike, but sometimes I wonder!   I still occasionally do something that leaves a scar, and right afterwards I say to myself, "Why'd you do that?"

No, I think you misread that Mike. I meant I wish I was getting smarter as I aged.

I keep thinking about this thread. Hmm?  Why would someone counterfeit a low dollar rifle?  Seems like the big money would be in high dollar arms.   

                             Joe. 

[quote author=3F2D3B3C2D3A262D3A480 link=1314752460/20#20 date=1315023281]I keep thinking about this thread. Hmm?  Why would someone counterfeit a low dollar rifle?  Seems like the big money would be in high dollar arms.   

Yes, it really dosen't make much since. I'm sure the guy that did it would have payed out at least $500 to have that barrel built and installed (in todays dallors) and that's bout how much I over payed for it. Makes no since at all.

Frank                              

Frank, just to insert another 2¢ worth concerning the "counterfeit" barrel situation... having read the whole thread carefully, I'm now of the opinion that a gunsmith went to a lot of effort to make a shootable .32-40 Ballard with a #2 action he had available to him, either at the request of a customer or for himself, and using the original wood.  This meant that he had to make up a barrel with the proper profile including the flats and the tulip, and since each Ballard receiver times up a little different from every other one, he marked the new barrel to the gun.  If it were mine, I would drill and tap the barrel and put a Lyman or Unertl scope on it; then I would shoot it with lead bullets and moderate loads of smokeless, but that's just me, YMMV.

Froggie

Counterfeiting a high end gun usually gets caught, as those guns are so valueable they get scrutinized closely before forking out thousands of dollars to purchase.
Counterfeiting a #2 to make it a #4 is cheap, easy, and since the prices double, an equal #2 will double in price and most people wont question it enough for the price difference, especially if it's a pretty good deal on a #4.
But there's also another reason that may not have originally involved counterfeiting. Often owners build a gun with no foul play intended. They just want it to be their version of what they wanted, but it gets sold cheap, and another buyer decides to resell it as something it isn't. 
I've run into owners that seemed legitimately surprised when I pointed out things that were not correct on a gun they were selling. I'm pretty sure they were unaware that the gun they thought was original was tampered with previously.
Ballards are found modified more often than just about any old singleshot rifle I've ever seen. Most often by old shooters who just wanted to customize them for themselves, but later by people trying to make them something more "interesting". I actually love the ones modified back in the old days by shooters, if they're nicely done.

The best thing to always do with a Ballard it to pull the breech block out and inspect before buying to make sure it is a forged one. If it is a long distance purchase such as a rifle at an auction I will not purchase one unless the auctioneer is willing to pull the breech-block for me and take pictures. If they can't do that I don't need to bid on it. Most are willing to if you walk them through the process. This way is about the only way too not get taken to the cleaners. 
Mike

In this situation counterfeit may be too strong a word. Many of have had a rifle that we fixed or re barreled to be as close to original as possible. The problem usually comes after it leaves the original owner. When we pass over and leave a safe full of guns that we have been keeping from our wives they have no idea what is in the safe. She calls the closest gunshop and he comes down and buys them for a bulk price. Now is when the real wheeler dealer stuff starts to come down the pike.
My experience with most gun show dealers is that wouldn't know a Bullard from a bulls butt. Most are willfully ignorant some are simply dishonest. Its all the same a modified gun that the original owner was open and honest about within an owner or two becomes "all original". Misrepresented may be a better word. There is a strong current of horse trading in gun collecting. The best rule of thumb is to stick with dealers that you know are reputable. Let the buyer beware.
40 Rod

I've always wanted a Rem Walker rifle. Will settle for fake or counterfeit.

Anyone??????

    Joe.     

Joe, 

You've provided pictures of excellent craftsmanship in the machining of various items from time to time on this forum. 

Maybe you might see if you could get an in-the-white hepburn action from C Sharps, and then make the mods from there. Why not give it a whirl? 

Joe,

You're right, it would be a lot of work. If we could get C Sharps to wire EDM the lever at a reasonable price, then....

But what I really want to know is just how did you get your projects whittled down to only at least ten rifles?    

Tacoma's out for me right now  .  I'm going to disconnect the phone and get caught up  .

My best to you at the match!