I'm being told that any gun made prior to 1900 can be shipped directly between buyer and seller without an FFL or C&R involved as it is an anitque. Is this correct?

unless you live in New York city or chicago i doubt you will have any problems, heck we can buy antiques by mail even in the peoples republic of California.Try the postal service, UPS is a bust, you'd have to drive 30 or more miles to go to a hub, UPS Stores will not ship even  antiques.The Typical UPS clerk will run and call the police as soon as you  say "gun".a bunch of idiots.

As I read the above, An original 1873 Trapdoor in 45-70 would not be considered an antique. Same for many pre 1898 rifles that you can still buy cartridges for.  More restrictive than I thought or am I mis-understanding? Thanks
Chuck

Chuckster wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 10:32pm:


Chuck,

Reading it in the legal sense, see that there's an OR between the first (in or prior to 1898) sentence, and the second paragraph.  If either of those conditions is true, it's an antique.  Thus, it is not more restrictive.  Anything made before 1899 is antique in the eyes of the law.  Except in NYC, Chicago, and New Jersey, and maybe a few more cities.

dave

The "gun show loophole" liberals always complain about allows me to sit in the duck blind and sell you my shotgun without fear of government prosecution. Also can give my son any kind of firearm for his birthday with the transfer protected. Same with trading single shots at the range during a match.   

Way we follow the rule around here is face to face people we know we buy & sell without worry. When I sell something out of state by mail to somebody I don't know always get my dealer to ship it to their dealer no matter what anybody else says.  He charges me 25 bucks to ship a gun plus actual postage and insurance. Well worth it to me. 

In Virginia we believe Bloombergs New York City Prosecutors  are trying to buy guns from dealers or at shows in order to catch somebody selling Illegally.  Better not to sell than get mixed up with New York City.

Boats

I've shipped scores of rifles, including antiques thru the post office in CA, and never had any problems yet.Now you can't mail handguns, so that's a different thing.I finally got a FFL003 because i'm tired of being ripped off by dealers, they do not want to recieve guns from a non FFL, so thye charge you 80-100 dollars  or even more. I am retired, so i'm cheap when i need to be.

I usually use the post office in town here, but I've used two others from time to time, and all they ever have asked me is if there is anything "liquid, hazardous or perishable" in the box.  Of course I answer "no", and also tell them that it's only hazardous if they drop it on their toes...   I normally ship express mail, insured, with delivery confirmation.  Less chance of things going astray.

David

I didn't say you couldn't ship through the post office, I said good luck!  I know from personal experience what happens when you pay for USPS delivery confirmation and don't get it.  They cheerfully (or not) offer to refund the delivery confirmation fee.  This is a joke as far as I am concerned.  For high value shipments I use FedEx ground or air exclusively.  The package is logged in and out of facilities and trucks along the way and you can see and track it's progress.  FedEX has never lost or damaged anything on me and the ground service is close in price to UPS.  UPS has delivered an empty box (ammunition and components from Midway) to my door: never again.

I ship from CAL and to all over the U. S. with very few problems.
Shipping an antique gun of any type is really easy 99% of the time, it is that 1% though that could bite you. That is why I always double check the state that I am sending it to and any city rules just in case. I'm like Boats and others, I do not want to get caught in a sting. And some sellers on Gunbroker are getting busted sending to NYC and JERSEY. So check and be safe.
Most of the time I ship USPS and I will tell you why, If you are mailing a high dollar rifle and insure it and they break it or loose it then you get the insurance. Last time they broke any of my stuff it was a nice model 1885 cracked the butt stock right the heck through at the wrist, looked like they had used my box for a pry bar or a seat for someone with a very fat can. That was a $2,000.00 check. UPS broke a box right where the rear sight of a Ballard rifle is and laid the sight back, I claimed 60.00 loss and still have not been paid, that was 5 years ago. FedEX does a fair job too. But FEDEX has had problems paying claims. For your own insurance make sure you insure for the full purchase price and take lots of pictures, detailed close up are best of items that are easy to break such as pictures of the wrist from all 4 sides, sights, and several overall pictures. This increases your chances of actually settling a claim as with a broken wrist you will have to prove it was not broken when shipped.

I've shipped all my antique firearms through USPS, but I had a lot of trouble in the beginning. First time I tried they freaked out and told me "they don't ship guns of ANY kind."
I went home and called our main post office and got a very nice guy who was sympathetic, and told me to go back and tell them he said it was OK. I went back and gave them his name and number, and they still refused.
Headed home and called him again, he directed me to their web site and the correct area to print out their regulations. I printed out the rules and took them with me. Same lady looked them over and still wouldn't accept it until she got her boss to read them.
They finally accepted the package and made a copy of the rules. I've gone back many times since then, and always keep the rules with me.
But the real key is what the guy at the main post office told me, "Don't tell them what's in the package!"
Seems that those 4 questions they ask are not anything to do with what's inside, and he said if thye asked me what's inside to tell them, "You're not supposed to ask that."
My mistake the first time was the lady casually asked, "What's in here that's so long and heavy?" And I mistakenly told her.
Since then I simply drop the package on the counter, pay the fees, and head home. Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies!

My understanding is that you are required to declare that it is a firearm. No problems at my local small town post office once I explained what I was doing and the postmaster checked out the regulations. Some postal employees don't have a clue. No wonder they are losing money.

A few years ago, I mailed a Lo Wall to Kansas.

I printed out the regulations from the ATF and USPS web sites, took it to the larger local PO.
I told the clerk it was a antique rifle, She right away told me I could not use the USPS to ship the rifle.
Handed her the regs, she read them and said she needed to ask the Post Master.
When she came back we shipped the rifle.

IF there is damage or loss and you told them it was something else, your coverage is voided.

Always good to have the rules in hand and stand your ground, when you are right.

Good to know. My PO is no problem either way but no need to give them more info than necessary.

It is good that the USPS honors their insurance.  They have for me, they paid to replace a broken reticle in a well packaged Unertl scope.  Unfortunately that is not what I want, just as with a guarantee, I don't want my money cheerfully refunded:  I want what I paid for to work.  If you look at just this thread, and the top thread under General Discussion concerning a Lyman STS, you will see all sorts of stories concerning the postal service breaking things.  That is why I use FedEX.  I don't work for them, but they have always worked for me.  My personal opinion is that the better package tracking makes their people more accountable for damage or loss.

The C & R deal get real bad as far as I know. To n=be C & R eligible the firearm in question I was told has to be in it's original form, not modified. 
Mike

I got a FFL003 C & R for the  same reason, i'm tired of being riped off by gun dealers.Matters were brought to a head by the fact that you need permisson to ship any firearm to a CA FFL(except a C & R), from the CA DOJ.Many dealers on gunbroker will not do this, even through it's easy.
The dealer i talked to would not ship to CA unless i had a FFL003,  so i got one, cost thirty dollars and three weeks.The rifle in question, beleive it or not, was a Stevens 44 with a left hand extractor and a 1889 patent date.Clearly an antique, but he would not ship it unless i got a FFL003, so i did.

AC, thanks for that info, I know your correct but I had an ATF agent, probably the not to bright one, tell me that one of my Stevens single shot had to go thru a regular FFL as the one we were looking at had been modified with a new barrel, his take on it and several of my other rifles that I asked about that had been rebarreled were the same. I think any other agent would have passed. These rifles are so close to the 1898 cut off it isn't funny. Not even close to the later models.
Maybe I should get one now.
Mike

Well, I think you are 100% correct, he was a jerk. If he were in the armed forces he would have been considered a 90 day wonder. 
I  have also had  several auction houses in Maine and the eastern states tell me that the ATF agents had told them that if they ship an antique rifle out that uses modern ammo with out going through an FFL they will go to jail. Well, we all know that is BOGUS as the law is not written that way at all. But some of these Agents regularly overstep the legal bounds that they are required by law to enforce, some like to make up the law as they go and some do get away with it too.
Mike