New to BP cartridge reloading . Been reloading smokeless rifle and pistols for 30 years . Did alot of research and asked questions on forums like ASSRA and BPCR . Started to reload for an Uberti Low Wall in 38-40.
Using Goex 2F powder and casting a 20:1 Lyman 175 Gr. bullet . About 35 grs. of powder . First tried different thickness of cork wads compression just with bullets . Cronographed around 1250 FPS . Group size 2-3" @ 100yrds . Pan lube my bullets was worried that wad would stick to base of bullet and travel down range . Tried a waxed orange juice cartoon, Used a piece of wax paper over the wad and under the base of bullet . Result no difference in accuracy or velocitiy . Last week tried loading powder to base of bullet with no wad , tried wiping lube off base to avoid powder contamination and also left lube on base of bullet . Loads with no wads results , 2-3 " group size and no changes in FPS because of powder contamination . Recovered a bullet with no wads shot into wet phone books and newspapers . No melting or distortion of base of bullets . Conclusions I will not be using wads any longer . Also there was still alot of lube left in the grease grooves . My lube formula
is 50 % beeswax and 50 % crisco some olive oil and a little lanolin .
Next trial will be with lube free bullets . Conclusions , no leading of barrel , no changes in FPS and consistance in accuracy of 2-3 " group size at 100 yrds . (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) At this link a very interesting article by Jim Taylor . Fits in with my experiments .

Very interesting let us know what kind of outfit you are using. Bench set up etc.

Soon as MVA delivers a new tang sight will be doing the same with an Original Marlin 1894 38/40, only thing is I will wring it out pretty good with smokeless to get a base line performance figure before going to black powder.

I shoot a fair amount of Pistol Caliber Silhouette and at 100 Meters,  10 % further than yards, my new made Marlin 32/20 and smokeless is about a 2 moa 10 shot rifle. Same with my 2 Marlin 39A's using good .22 Rim fire match ammo. 2 moa is the benchmark with post front and Aperture rear.

This compared to 1 1/2 moa or a bit better with my two offhand stocked iron sighted CPA's, 32/40 smokeless or 38/55 black powder.  Pistol caliber rifles get a bad rap, mostly because they are not set up or loaded properly. No inherent reason they won't shoot at short ranges with Rifle Cartridges

If you are getting 2-3 inches at 100 yards using black powder in a pistol caliber rifle  not built for bench rest with iron sights it's pretty good, could be a bit better

I have no doubt mine will shoot with Black based on the little bit of work I have done smokeless with factory open sights. Thing I plan to work on is 10 -15 shots with no wiping the bore, so it can be used in a regulation Silhouette match. Expect the successful load to be duplex with a light charge of 4759 under a full case of Black powder and a very thin card wad. Will see and report results.

Boats

You are right about the 1873,  reason I call the 38/40 and 44/40 pistol calibers is NRA classes them as such for competition.  Truthfully they were developed for Rifles by Winchester. Although weak repeaters like the 1873 Winchester could not handle anywhere near the cartridge good single shots could at the time, Like the 1885 or even Trapdoor Springfield. Was 1886 before the Browning designed Winchester was able to handle the Goverment 45/70

You are on the right track with the loads.  My BP cartridge experience is bullet fit is critical and case full of powder is too.  Also the powder needs to be "settled' lot of opinion on how but key is it is either vibrated drop tubed or compressed in the case for a nice tight load.  Part of the reason for thin wads is to facilitate compression. Lot of the old 38/40 data is for FG powder and I have laid in a small supply to test. Have plenty of FFG and FFFG already on hand.  My expectations are modest 2 moa at 100 meters for 10 shot strings. If it won't do that it won't shoot matches.

Let you know how it goes.

Boats

Looking at Major Whelen's The American Rifle, 1918, factory loaded standard 38/40 was 1324 fps. Black power or smokeless  powder same velocity.  High speed loading was a jacketed bullet with smokeless powder @ 1776 fps.  I don't think there is any way to get Black powder to that velocity.

On wads and compession. I have gone full circle on compression with black power. Over compressed some in the 45/70 with troublesome results.  have all sorts of compession dies and plugs and complicated ways to measure how much compression. 

Shooting Breech Seated in my 38/55 CPA needed a way to throw a charge at the shooting bench while still "settling" the powder. Compression and drop tubes add a lot of complication and not suitable for use during the Hudson match. Or so I say.

Way I do it now is throw the charge, then tap the cases side with a brass rod, same number of taps every time. Then put a wad on top, to keep the powder from spilling when inserting the case, load and shoot. It works every bit as well as compressing, Have gone to tapping for fixed loads prepared in my shop too. Friend of mine is a very good BP long range shooter, He holds his charged cases against his vibrating case cleaner to settle the powder, never compresses at all.

It's not going to hurt to push a bit more when seating the bullet but be careful, soft lead can deform if pressed too hard. Best to only "kiss" the bullets base with powder when seating in a press.

So why use "hard cast" More trouble caused by bullets too hard than almost any other reason in single shots. Never can tell though might be something to it. I suspect the commercial "hard bullets" have a lot of anomonity and much more difficult to get results than simply increasing the tin lead ratio on home cast bullets. I do know shooters using  fast twist barrels that cast harder. 

Boats

Interesting, the Chuck Hawks article is pretty good. Handloader recently had a good one on the cartridge too.  I read as much as I could before "rescuing" this old Marlin 1894 24 inch barrel rifle. Had heard a lot of negative about the 38/40 too and wanted some advice before plunking down cash for a new rifle. What with the tang sight dies and in the future bullet mold sizing die and all it's a fair amount.  I have Elmer Keith's books and like his style but am afraid few cartridges met his standards so discounted his opinion some.

However in actual use it depends on what you expect.  I am only going to use it for Silhouette matches to 100 meters, and even then as a back up rifle to my 32/20.  Loading to original black powder velocity using a 175 gr .401 store bought cast bullet & 8.2 grs of Unique. I have about 6 loadings on one lot of 100 new WW Nickle cases with no problems.  2nd lot of 250 cases from Starline have been loaded once each now ready for serious testing. I expect them to last a long time based on what I have seen so far. Am careful not to work the shoulder too much when re-sizing. Nickle  now on will be dedicated to Black powder testing. 

As far as the performance comments, well it knocks over Rams with authority, more than needed.  Have no plans to take it hunting, except that bullet will be just as effective at close range as many handguns are. Under 50 yards should out perform .357 mags seems to me it's about .41 mag or 10 MM power And in my hands have a better chance of good hits than a Revolver.  Sounds just right for Feral Pigs.   

Thing that attracted me to it was the large bore and small case capacity, coupled with slow twist it ought to handle Black powder better than something smaller bore and fast twist, and still meet Pistol Caliber match rules.  All that smoke if I can get it working with Black Power will liven up the matches too. That's a reasonable trade off for accuracy. 200 yard Schuetzen cartridge it's not.

Boats

Aug 17^th, 2011 at 10:12amI have read several articles such as Chuck Hawks giving a stern warning to stay away from reloading the 38-40 ! Alot of B.S. When I bought my Uberti Low Wall I ordered 100 empty Starline brass cases from Buffalo arms . I'am keeping track and now on my 5th reloading with no signs of buckled or split cases . For anyone thinking of getting into the 38-40 either for cowby action / revolvers or rifles/ lever action just take your time and use good loading techniques and quality reloading equipment
and quality componets and the 38-40 is no harder to reload than the 38 Special . Infact I do not full length resize for my single action just a little sizing on the neck area and I use no case lube either . After each round is fired throw the empty case in a bottle of dish detergent water . Take home and dry out , punch out the primers and toss in the Lyman tumbler and good to go for another reloading . I have to wonder if any of these gun writers actually reload the cases they are warning others to stay away from ?

Colt made them in 38/40 about 10 years ago, a friend had one. So they may still make them in that caliber. Seems like Ruger did, too. I think they had a convertible 10mm-38/40.

Frank

My two best targets I ever shot were in 38-40, 175 grain, and unique, in a winchester '73, single set trigger. Next best was a 32-20 stevens M-44.  Although the winchester lovers like to forget this, the Marlin M-1881 came out in 45-70.  I had one, and it did what it was supposed to do.