Gentlemen,
I could really use some advice. My searches have brought a lot of information, and now I'm fairly confused. 
  I have an original low wall with an outstanding 28 inch barrel. I have never loaded for 25-20 S.S. so before I started looking for moulds, I purchased some 1/20 alloy, 85 gr. bullets from Buffalo Arms. These are sized to .257 and actually weigh in at about 88 gr. and come lubed with SPG. I loaded five rounds with 4.5 grs. of Unique, bullet seated out to the lands, and no crimp. As I have never fired this rifle before, I started at about 25yds with a cross stick rest. Results for the five rounds were a 4 in. diameter "pattern" with one round tipped and another that literally went in side ways. The barrel has the original 1-14 twist and slugged at .2565 groove/.250 bore. The five rounds produced some very minor, light flaked leading upon cleaning. Cases showed no pressure signs.
Soooo...my questions are:

Will my 1-14 twist barrel stabilize an 88 gr. bullet?

What would be a good starting load for this bullet with Unique, or IMR4227 in the 1-14 twist barrel?

What would be an excessive chamber pressure for the flat spring low wall action?

I'm more experienced with the much stronger Sharps/high wall/Martini type actions and most of my load development background has been with much larger calibers. I'm not looking to be "spoon fed", but really don't want to damage this nice little rifle. I could sure use a push in the right direction. 
Thanks for any suggestions or advice you can send my way.
Tom W.

Frank,
   I am going to try the BAC bullets with 8.0 and 8.5 grains of IMR4227 tomorrow. Might try Swiss BP after that. If I can't get them to stabilize, I suppose I will try one of the Lyman 257420 molds. I know I can shoot that bullet without the gas check or anneal the gas check and shoot them with it. If that doesn't work, I guess I will mill it down like yours. The chamber and bore of my low wall are so nice, it would be a sin to line it to a faster twist. I guess I can understand how it survived so many years in such great condition. No one could get it to shoot after the cartridge companies quit producing OTC 25-20 S.S.
   I had hoped to take it squirrel and rabbit hunting this fall, so I hope I can get it up and running.
   Thanks for the reply, and the idea of the cut-down 420. I suspect that will be the short term solution. I guess I will join the hordes of .25 cal mold hunters....
Tom W. 

What a timely topic.  I too have a new, to me, 25/20SS in a Maynard model 16.  Since it takes some time to work up loads, as a expedient I ordered some BP loads from Buffalo Arms.  Pulled one apart, bullet miked 257 weighed 87.7 gr, 16.1 gr looks like 3f-- seemed compressed, looks like SPG lube.  Rifle chamber cast looks great, bore mike's 257 and looks perfect to unaided eye, but when shot at 75 yards one gets perfect keyhole silhouettes.  With my 25/21 and 32/32 out to 150 yards, and occasionally 200 yards I either killed a groundhog or covered it with dirt--BP loads.  I do have components coming from Buffalo Arms, but am now worried if the bullet is too long, it was standard weight, or too soft.  this Maynard original barrel is marked ROT 1:15 and I confirmed it with a tight patch and rod.   I do have one BP replica Spencer that only will shoot with Linotype.  I know many SS rifles get best accuracy with breech seated bullets followed by a charges case, but I still would not expect fixed ammo to keyhole.   So if anyone out there is having success please shoot me some advice.


I am concerned about using smokeless in a Maynard action.  Are you guys routinely using it in Maynards.  My goal is not to "soup" it up, just to match original ballistics.  I have used smokeless in falling block actions similarly, but am unsure of the strength of the Maynard.

thanks

Mike in VA.

Cat_Whisperer wrote on Aug 14^th, 2011 at 1:48pm:



Dittos from Central VA, Mike.  I'm in Lynchburg and shoot at my home range in Gretna (the Chinquapin Schuetzenverein at Brushy Mtn Club.)  While I have two rifles in .25-20 SS, they are Winchesters, but I do shoot Maynards including a .50 percussion in a 1st Model repro by Romano (for skirmishing with N-SSA at Winchester.)  By all means please get in touch with CatWhisperer or myself and come shoot with us.  

Last match 40Rod and I, along with several others started discussing the pros and cons of the .25-20 SS.  IIRC he was shooting one built on a Ballard action.  We will have our next matches the last Friday and Saturday of September and October.  Please consider coming and bringing your Maynard to shoot.  Last time moodyholler had the only Maynard on the line, and I know he'd love to have company!

Regards,
Charlie Shaeff

PS  I'm trying to develop my ¢offer$ well enough to have John Bly build a .25-20 SS barrel for my original 1873 action, and specially make the breech face long enough to use "modern" ammo.  I know there were no .25-20 SS 1873s, but that's my plan anyway!  

Everyone,
   Well, this morning showed some promise, and raised more questions. I received a PM from a long time quarter bore shooter, who suggested that my problem was not related to my twist rate. He stated that he had shot 86 grain lead bullets with the 1-14 twist on several occasions with good results. He suggested that the neck diameter of the die was distorting the bullet as it entered and left the case. I checked my expander die (CH/4D) and it was .256 dia and was an elongated ball shape, so no turning it in to get a greater diameter. I pulled a loaded round and the bullet measured .2565. Unfortunately the fired case mouths measure .2605, so I do have to resize the case (I don't currently own a neck sizeing die).  The gentleman also suggested a load of 8.5 gr. of IMR4227. With nothing I could fix until I get a larger expander ball, and neck die, I loaded 5 rounds with 8.0 gr of the 4227, and 5 more with 8.5 gr.s.
  This morning I fired the 10 rounds at 25 yds from a x stick rest. Weather was in the mid 80s and 10-15 mph side wind. The 8.0 grain load was first and showed some tendency to be a group, but with some minor tipping. The 8.5 grain load put 4 out of 5 into a group that measured 5/16 x 5/16 on centers, with the 5th round about 3/4 inch above the other four (remember, this is only 25 yds). None showed any obvious tipping. Needless to say I was pretty ecstatic! 
   Upon getting home and wiping the bore out, I found long strings of lead on the patches. Most came out with the first patch and by patch two, all was clean. The lead strings seemed to not be bonded to the bore, and no brushing was necessary. All bullets lubed with SPG.
  So...I'm thinking this may be a die-size related/gas cut bullet issue? 
I have the same bullet on back order from BACo, but in a .258 dia. I will have to give those a try when they show up.
  What do you gentlemen think?
I suppose there is always breech seating...(not a first choice on a hunting rifle)
Thanks
Tom

Mike, 

You may be on the right track. My old Winchester catalogs show they used an alloy of 1:60 for their loading of the 25-20 SS cartridge with an 86 grain bullet on top of 19 grains Fg or FFg black powder. 

Tom
1:20 isn't going to bump much especially with the light charge of a 25-20SS. I'd weight till I could either get the right size expander ball or try breech seating them temporally. That will let you go to the range and try powder charges until you get a charge that works for you. Once you get a charge that works and you get the right equipment you can move to shooting fixed.
Phil Sharpe  gives a load of 5 grains Unique with an Lyman 86 gr. bullet as having 1200 fps.
Same bullet using 8.5 gr. of 4227 as having 1400 fps.
hope that this helps
40 Rod

The original Maynards had 15" twist barrels and supposedly shot 86 gr bullets. I get some bullet tipping in mine with black powder loads. I've got several barrels and they are somewhat rough with some pitting. I've got a new 14" twist blank that I'll make up sometime and try it.

Steve Garbe had an article in the spring 2009 BPC News on his testing of the 25/20 SS but it had a 10" twist. He recommended small pistol primers as being the most consistent with the lowest SD's.

Smokeless loads are OK in Maynards. They are old and the frames all date from the Civil War production, so keep it sensible. The firing pin in the 1882 model is quite large and they will show pressure signs easily with the primer pushing back on the firing pin.

I want to try 1680 powder in mine. It looks as if it may be slightly bulkier than 4227 and I could load about 2 grains more for the same results. If you try 1680 work up slowly and watch for any signs of pressure. A chronograph would be useful.

I wish I had more time to work with my 25/20's. They seem like a very interesting caliber.