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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP (Read 15243 times)
John Boy
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Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Aug 9th, 2011 at 6:00pm
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The range results yesterday testing these 2 powders with the BACO316180 bullet ... was not stellar!
Chronograph Results:
13.0gr SR4759: 1209 avg - 27.6 SD
13.5gr SR4759: 1239 avg - 28 SD
12.0gr 300MP:   1199 avg - 48.6 SD
12.5gr 300MP:   1225 avg - 39.2 SD

Shot the reloads at 100 and 200yds - reloading data on each target - sighters included on each target.  Additional note to reloading data ... all bullets were finger seated with a slight crimp

100 Yards - SR4759
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100 Yards - 300MP
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200 Yards - SR4759
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200 Yards - 300MP ... A Disaster!
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Picture of Fouling and Blowback on Cases
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Picture of AYDT Bore Slug - The grooves are 0.125 wide
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Conclusion:
*  I am not a poor marksman and have targets to verify this
*  I have confidence in the accuracy of the rifle based on 50yd Schuetzen Gallery match results
*  Tis the bullet and lack of a crimp.  The stop rings used were 1:15 alloy and believe they did not obturate fully.  Evidenced by poor groups and when I examined the slug, it too was not fully up against the grooves.  Interesting, the 13.5gr SR4759 group better at 100yds but worse than the 13gr SR4759 @ 200 yds

Next test:  Same loading data with bullets cast in 1:40 and the case with a full crimp to reduce SD of the velocities (hopefully!)
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #1 - Aug 9th, 2011 at 7:58pm
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John Boy,
Some suggestions,

1. Don't go to 40/1, it may be to soft, Try 24 - 30/1.

2. I wouldn't crimp at all.

3. If you want the bullet to engrave better, make a longer case. You don't have to be tied to the 46mm length. Your camber will most likely take a case as long as 1.94, before the throat starts. That how long that I make mine but, I BS. With the stop ring, you can push it into the rifling that way. Keep the mouth square with little or no chamfer.

5. try Rem 2 1/2 Pistol primers with the 4759.

6. Speed it up, go to 14.5 4759, your in the trans sonic range. I think you'll do better at 1300 - 1400.

Frank
  

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tenx
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #2 - Aug 9th, 2011 at 8:01pm
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JB,

 Interesting results but kind of unexpected. When I was working  the load up for my 8.15x46 I used the NEI stop ring bullet which weighed 185 grs. cast 1-25, used it as cast, and just seated the bullet to the stop ring in the case with no crimp and no resizing. Used 4227 powder. In my Steigele Martini loading that way the bullet was a snug fit into the throat. Possibly that was tight enuf to give consistently low SD's but can't verify that other than to say it shot reasonably well at 100 yds. (1 1/2" to 2")...... the only distance I shot it at....... considering it's age and being an offhand Schuetzen rifle.

 But will look forward to seeing your further tests as I've been hearing good things about that 300MP. From your pictures it sure does leave the cases dirty even after what appears to be wiping off.

Pete
  
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John Boy
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #3 - Aug 9th, 2011 at 11:22pm
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Frank, went to the basement thinking about your recommendation to make the cases longer.  That's a project, reforming 30-30's, trimming and then reducing the rim diameter.  So, dropped a bullet in the chamber and took some measurements.  With the bullet seated at the bottom of one band behind the stop ring, the round COL is 2.495.  When chambered the ogive is engraved in the leading bore cut half way down the ogive with very little camming needed ... Bingo!  Smiley  No crimp will be applied to the case

Next:  I have no idea or reference what the brisance of a Rem 2 1/2 primer is.  What I do know though is the Fed GM150M has the lowest brisance of all  the pistol primers.  So, GM150M's it will be with the SR4795.  The powder is an extruded single base with a heavily textured surface kind of like brushed aluminum to improve ignition.  As with BP that has a graphite surface, low brisance primers work best to ignite the powder column.

Next:  All the reading I've done including Philip Sharpe's Guide, the charges are either 13.0 or 13.5gr of SR4759

Next: About the alloy.  I've got 1:40's cast and have to give them a ride.  If no clover leafs with this alloy - next batch of lead will be 1:30

As for the the 300MP reloads, I am going to increase the charge to 13.5gr and load them the same way as the 4795's except using CCI BR2's instead of the Federal Match Magnums.  Seating the bullet out should reduce the blow back

I've got 8 days to fiddle with the Aydt before the match on the 19th.  Really believe seating the bullet out is going to improve the groups
  
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JLouis
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #4 - Aug 11th, 2011 at 1:04pm
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JB

If you have any magnum primers give them a try with the 300MP standard primers did not provide me with any postive results nor did the pistol primers.

J.Louis
  

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John Boy
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #5 - Aug 11th, 2011 at 5:07pm
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JL, for the good of the order ... Federal GM215M primers are what I have been using with the 300-MP reloads.  Also am putting a thin construction paper wad over the flash hole so none of the very fine grains get in the hole to disrupt the powder charge ignition
  
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John Boy
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #6 - Aug 16th, 2011 at 6:52pm
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Frank, I'm half way there!
*  My issue was the BACO 316180 bullet - too small a base for proper obturation
*  Went under the work bench and pulled out a jar of Ideal 319273, the Doc Hudson bullet, 184.5gr - 1:30 with a base of 319 ... no leading either!
*  Primer - Rem 2 1/2 LP - thank you
*  Didn't listen to increase the powder charge of 13.5 to 14.5gr of SR4759 ... Next Time!
*  Seated the 319273 tapered bullet to the bottom of the 1st GG band above the base

100Yds
5 shots for group: pulled 1 in the 9 ring - 1 in the 10 ring and 3 center hits ... 4 shot group: 0.736 x 0.454, less than MOA  Smiley

200Yds
After 9 sighters - 10 shots for group.  The group really opened up: 5 3/8 x 4 1/2 ... 2 center - seven 10 ring and 1 in the 9 ring.  More work to do but at lest it will get me through the match this Sunday

100Yds
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200Yds
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Notes:
*  Have the BACO319180 on order
*  After the match JLewis, back on the 300-MP and Frank, juice the charge up to 14.5gr SR and also with the 300-MP ... all with the 319180 stop ring bullet in 1:30
Thanks Guys for all your help getting this cantankerous rifle to shoot half way decently 


  
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frnkeore
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #7 - Aug 16th, 2011 at 7:25pm
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John Boy,
I'm glad your having success! 

I see what looks like several tipped bullet holes, hopefully that will go away with the increased powder charge. If you can manage a breech seater, I think you'll be very happy with that Hudson bullet. I've gotten 5/8's groups (5 shot @ 100) with mine that way. If you still have a problem with tipping after the 14.5 loads, give it a try. 

I've never shot mine at 200 for groups so, I can't say what it will do at that range. I just use it as a OH rifle and sight it in at 200. I'll have to try it out before long though, to see what it will do.

Frank

  

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John Boy
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #8 - Aug 16th, 2011 at 9:30pm
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Frank, if your referring to the holes on the 200yd target they are due to the target stand at our range.  The target stand is a piece course soft cellulose material.  The center of the backer is cut out the diameter of the black on a 200yd target.  Accordingly, the black of the area is just the paper target that bends when hit.

If the BACO 319180 bullets don't equal or better the Do Hudson ones, then I'll make up a plugged case as seater and give them a try ... 1/16" exposed in the chamber.  The Ideal 319273's that I used are for a breech seating chamber ... I cheated by seating them long so the ogive at least was engraved including the driving band
  
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John Boy
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #9 - Aug 19th, 2011 at 8:21pm
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To the range again today - 200yds only
*Rem2 1/2
BACO 320180 Stop Ring - 181gr actual - 1:30
10 rnds - 14.0gr SR4759 ... Green patches on target
10 rnds - 14.5gr SR4759 ... Red patches on target
I'm getting there but not happy with the results
14.5gr - red patches - well, not match grade results Embarrassed
1 - Center
2 - Ten Ring
3 - Nine Ring
1 - Seven Ring

14.0gr -green patches - not bad but more work needed
Only 9 rnds on the taget - clueless about the missing
4 - Center
3 - Ten Ring
2 - Nine Ring
1 - Unknown

Using an old target and sight setting for 13.5gr SR4759 for 14.5gr group, moved sights just enough to not bugger up 14.5gr holes for 14.0gr

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Next .... back to 13.5gr and 13.8gr SR4759 with 320180 bullet.  Gonna try a 265gr bullet with 13.0gr SR
  
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JLouis
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #10 - Aug 19th, 2011 at 9:01pm
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John appears your groups are shrinking and that is awesome news, please keep moving forward I think you are on your way to proving some of the theories of shooting fixed ammunition as being old school technology and I wish you the best.

J.Louis
  

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John Boy
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #11 - Aug 20th, 2011 at 12:56pm
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John - found a container of Ideal 319289's under the counter that I forgot about.  Another Doc Hudson straight taper bullet (185gr) that I'm going to give a try also.  As you can see it has plenty of bearing surface and one of these bullets HAS to produce because I am running out of patience!
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #12 - Aug 20th, 2011 at 9:05pm
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John Boy,

Patience is a bad thing to run out of.   

Remember we are having fun at the range.

So, Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #13 - Aug 21st, 2011 at 10:04pm
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John Boy,
Don't forget to try 4227 with pistol or rifle primers.

Frank
  

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John Boy
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Re: Range Test: 8.15x46R - SR4759 & 300MP
Reply #14 - Aug 21st, 2011 at 10:52pm
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Yesterday afternoon, ran the 319289's in the Powley Stability Calculator ... bingo for a 1:15 twist.  So I loaded 5 rounds and but them in a box with extra 319273's for the Schuetzen match today.  After getting a shotgun target with the '273 rounds at 200yds, shot the 319289's last.  Five shot group was 21's, 23's and one 24.  Believe am getting somewhere

So this week, the 289's and the BACO 320180's go to the range with SR4759 and 4227 for another trial run
  
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