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joeb33050
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Measuring Group Size
Jul 3rd, 2011 at 10:59am
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I would like to know how competition groups are measured, group size. I'd like to know the exact procedure and measuring instrument used.
hanks;
joe b.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Measuring Group Size
Reply #1 - Jul 3rd, 2011 at 4:45pm
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When I held matches, I would get the groove diameter of the barrel, measure from outside to outside of the widest shots and subtract the groove diameter from that distance. For score tragets, it's much harder (center line of ring, bullet being in or out). I use my best jugdement on those and ask other shooters to make a judgement, also. The problem there is the ring is curved and it's hard to know where the bullet passes through it, since it's no longer there. I had no device to help with it.

Frank
  

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JLouis
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Re: Measuring Group Size
Reply #2 - Jul 3rd, 2011 at 5:13pm
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Frank when I was the ASSRA Match Director I had a set of ASSRA overlays for the score targets and don't believe the use of plugs are allowed if someone has a mind to ask.

Group targets were scored in the same manner you used along with the assistance of a digital micrometer but again it was based ones best judgement.

I believe Sinclair also provides the proper tooling for scoring group targets.

J.Louis
  

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feuerbixler
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Re: Measuring Group Size
Reply #3 - Jul 3rd, 2011 at 6:20pm
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Hello experts!  Wink

I am also verrrrry interested in learning how you measure these groups in US. We do not have these matches in Germany, so I don't know that - I read only about that.

But  do not understand how it works. Is somebody able to post some pics of that procedure? Who can explain that in pictures?

        Biggi from Bavaria.     Smiley
  

Questions in old German target rifles??? Hhhmm, maybe I can help...
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frnkeore
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Re: Measuring Group Size
Reply #4 - Jul 3rd, 2011 at 6:26pm
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I used dial calipers along with a magifying glass for the group targets. I suppose (although you can't do it at a match), a optical comparitor would be the most accurate thing to use if it were a record target or there were some dispute of the results. A optical comparitor can measure to .0001 if need be. A CMM would be a little more accurate but, not many have access to one. For the most part, calipers and the scoring ring tool that John mentions would almost always do the job. I would suggest that a comparitor be used in cases of record targets (especially group). You will get a slight difference using it from manually measured targets BUT, there would be a undisputeable measurement based on national measurement standards traceable the the NIST.

Frank
  

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deadwooddick
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Re: Measuring Group Size
Reply #5 - Jul 4th, 2011 at 11:45am
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Neil Jones of Custom Products in Pennsylvania supplies this accessory to standard vernier (dial or digital) calipers… It's used at nearly all formal benchrest competitions here in the US. The black arrow points to one of several inscribed bullet diameter rings on a clear plastic "overlay."

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With the tool at zero, a selected ring is placed over a bullet hole. The leftmost component has a rectangular block (with a retractable pin) that's pushed down to hold "base" in place whilst the overlay is adjusted to the right and centered over the most distant bullet hole. This returns a reading to .0001" for the Center-to Center distance between the selected holes.

Other diameter rings can be inscribed, to better fit the larger BP bullet hole. An accessory magnifying lens can be fitted to the slide to more accurately position a ring over the bullet holes, in my 20+ years use I haven't found it necessary.

dwd

P.S. for some of the time, I need the 18 inch caliper.  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2011 at 12:29pm by deadwooddick »  
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