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tommyauger
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looking for load 45-70
Jun 25th, 2011 at 2:18pm
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looking for a low pressure load for my 45-70 peabody. I have only shot black powder in it.Would like to try a smokeless load I will be shooting a 495-500 grain bullet
thanks TommyAuger
  

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frnkeore
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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #1 - Jun 25th, 2011 at 2:54pm
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You can't go wrong with 10-12.0 gr of Unique or about 24 gr of 4759. Pistol primers for both.

Frank
  

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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #2 - Jun 25th, 2011 at 4:55pm
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2nd Frank's advice, have had good luck with both in Trapdoors and Lever Actions.  Lately using 4759, 22 grs but have used as much as 24. 4759 for the Trapdoor I load until the sights match black powder sight settings.  (paying attention to pressure signs)

My first successful smokeless 45/70 load was with Unique though.

Boats
  
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zrifleman
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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #3 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 1:46am
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The 24 gr load of 4759 sounds ok but 10-12 grs of unique is a recipe for disaster. thats about the right combo for ringing a chamber. Thats way too much air space in a cartridge and a powder that is relatvely fast burning. Just my 2 cts worth---if you don't agree knock yourself out!
  
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frnkeore
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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #4 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 2:24am
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I've shot hundreds of rounds of the Unique 10.0 gr load myself and I got that info from Trap Door military match loads that were listed before the 80's. It's a good safe and accurate load for Trap Doors with soft barrels. 

My only knowlege of rung barrels comes from the use of wads pushed down on the powder (I'm one of the people that I know about  Smiley ) but, not from light loads. I shot thousands of rounds of 12.5 grains of 296 Winchester in my 32/40's. At that time Winchester didn't recommend reduced loads of any kind for 296 and in the 80's and 90's, lots of SS shooters used that load or one close to it w/o any problems. And now there is no such warning. BTW, my chrono results with it where 6 fps extreme spread with F150 pistol primers.

Both Unique and B'eye have been used in low density loads in pistols for more than 100 years w/o problems.

If anyone has direct knowlege of a rung barrel resulting from my 10.0 gr load of Unique w/o a wad, please, please, let me and the rest of the forum know about it.

Frank
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2011 at 4:39am by frnkeore »  

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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #5 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 6:48am
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Around 10 of Unique was the most common Trapdoor load at FR&G's Ram Bash Matches early 80's  Dozen Guys campaigned trapdoors with it and no problems. It's probably the most recommended cast bullet rifle powder in the old manuals, Sharpe's Mattens and Lyman handbooks.

Unique is still the powder I go to for new cast bullet cartridges,  using it now in the 38/40  However I always migrate away from Unique once I get something worked out and shooting well.  It's sensitive to powder position, you will get vertical stringing if the rifle is not mounted the same way every shot.  Cast bullet rifles will shoot 
higher scores for me with 4227/4759

Only potential Unique danger I can see is a double charge. When I used it in the Trapdoor used a double check method, visual with a flashlight and 2nd check with a drop gauge.  Never saw a ringed chamber.

However it's a choice and not asking anybody to use Unique loads.

Boats
  
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tommyauger
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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #6 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 2:06pm
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Thanks to all for the replies I have one question on wad placement. I shoot the same shells in my Peabody so right know all I do is clean re prime and load. No neck sizing or anything. With my Goex load I compress add 60 thousand wad. Then I just thumb seat the bullet. With a smokeless load I have run into a problem with the extra room in the case. If I use a wad seated on the powder my bullet falls right into the case???? What is a good way to eat up the extra room in a case so my bullet fits the shell better or should I not worry about that.   With ringing the chamber if my wad is down on the powder and my bullet slides forward in the shell I will have a gap is that what will cause a chamber to ring????? Thanks TommyAuger
  

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fallingblock
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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #7 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 6:13pm
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Tommy,
Come over and either buy for $60.00 or read my copy of the Modern Schuetzen Rifle it has a good chapter on Ringing Chambers.
Cheers,
Laurie
  

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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #8 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 10:09pm
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Don't use a wad.  With fixed ammo and smokless re-size the case then expand with a Lyman M die or the equlivent then seat with light but firm neck pull.

If you are worried about ringing probably should not shoot the rifle with smokless powder. Loose powder, Unique or 4759 It's not going to ring but will worry you reading all the cautions.

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tommyauger
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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #9 - Jun 28th, 2011 at 9:04am
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Thanks Boats
  

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Leo1885
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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #10 - Jun 28th, 2011 at 11:39am
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A 3/4" cube of dacron filler will take up the empty space and hold the powder against the primer hole. Works for me with SR4759.
  
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Joe_S
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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #11 - Jun 28th, 2011 at 8:19pm
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Hello Thomas,

I would suggest 19gr of IMR 4759 with a 400-420 gr bullet, works OK with a 500 gr bullet also.

23 gr 4759 with the 420 gr bullet is also very good in all of my 45-70 rifles. 
22gr 4759 with a 500 gr bullet is one of the most consistently accurate loads I have ever tried. Recoil can be an issue, however.

Accurate Arms 5744 is also a good choice. 23 gr with a 400-420 gr bullet.

I use a toilet paper wad seated with a dowel, which is marked to serve as a check for proper powder charge. I am NOT recommending a wad, as it is quite controversial, use your own judgment. 
I hope this helps, 

Joe S
  
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Matt
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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #12 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 7:27am
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tommyauger;

I have a Pedersoli Sharps and I use 24 grains of 2400 with good success, I don't use wads or fillers with it and it isn't position sensitive.
I also use Trail Boss but the velocities are lower then I want for hunting.

Matt
  
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trapdoor Dick
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Re: looking for load 45-70
Reply #13 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 10:49am
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I go along with Matt. With the 405 family of bullets, the 24 grs of 2400 has always been good in any of the TD's I've built and shoot. For a fun, low recoil, plinking/100 yd load, a 300 gr lead over 18 gr 2400 is neat. And I have never found any position sensitive indications. 

Dick
  

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb. - Benjamin Franklin
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