Anyone know much about the Rolling Block pistols that were made up on the little #4 style actions? I've seen a few of them, all in .22LR, and some target style, while others just plinkers.
I picked one up at our singleshot show Sun. and now I'm looking for info about when they were built, etc....
Don't see them often, and I was surprised to see not only this plain one, but also an engraved target one both at the show, by two different sellers.

Some time back, there was a thread on rolling block pistols and someone posted a picture of a pair that had been made from #4 actions. From what I remember of the photo, they were nicely done.

To see the #4 pistols, go to the 2nd page on this link:

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Tom_Trevor assra life no.71 wrote on May 31^st, 2011 at 11:33pm:


Thanks, I may have to check the library. I saw Womack's has that book for sale, but since I don't plan on getting deep into Rolling Block pistols I probably don't want to buy a copy. 
I've got every other book on rolling Blocks, but none of them cover pistols much, especially these smaller framed ones.

The cadets were made on a 1867 Navy Rolling Block pistol frame.  As mentioned before, it has a perch belly lower profile to the action, and the action top has no rim or ridge at the rear where it meets the grip.

There's a lot of speculation that there's no such thing as an 1867 navy pistol.  Some claim it is a modification of the 1865 spur trigger model, still others claim it is a modification of the navy cadet carbine.  I know that a lot of them I see are shop made; the story I've heard with them is that remington had a huge surplus of cadet actions, and sold them off to custom builders.  Take your pick of the stories to suit what you're trying to sell is what most sellers do.

If yours has the takedown on the front right corner, it isn't an 1867 pistol action but is probably a #4.  I've never seen an 1867 takedown.  They all had a threaded barrel with the same thread as a blackpowder #1.  Bannerman sold a large number of new surplus .50 cadet barrels a few years ago, and I see them installed on #1 actions and chambered for .50-70 quite often.

The other pistol you see very rarely is the 1871 Army pistol, the 1891 target pistol, and the 1901 target pistol.  They share their frame with the #7 rolling block rifle.  According to Flaydermans, only about 7500 total of the three was made.  They have kind of a peak or rim to the top of the frame at the rear where it meets the grip.

I'd hazard a guess that a #4 framed pistol is a custom conversion, as I've never heard of a factory one.  I did a quick look through my books to see if anything; but nothing surfaced.  But, there's always  surprises out there, and I'm definitely not an authority on them!

dave


marlinguy wrote on Jun 1^st, 2011 at 10:53am:

I'm going from John Gyde' and Roy Marcot's book on the Remington .22 rifles. In that treatise he lists the Boy Scout version and the Cadet version both as being based on the #4 action, and neither have the retaining pins and plate of the Rolling Block Navy pistol, or Army pistol. They actually list that gun in Rem. catalog as the "No. 4-S Cadet" model. Built from 1911-1912 only. Boy Scout from 1913-1914, and Military Model from 1914-1923. Combinedd production of around 6,000 guns.
Since both of the pistols at the show seemed identical, (except for barrels) I thought it must be something Rem. built based on leftover #4 actions, since comparing it to one of my #4's it's definitely that action, but with different tangs. I suppose it could just be a very popular gunsmith rework, and that would explain seeing so many of them. I need to do more research and see what's up.
I'll try to get it apart and check numbers, possible frame mods, etc. and post pics.

Remington rolling block #4 actions have a unique feature, the block and hammer are mounted on screws rather than pins. Remington did not make a pistol on this action, however, Landskron does document several that were made (modified) by custom gunsmiths from #4 rifle actions.  The lever take down feature on the #4 rifle was itself unique to rifles produced from 1890 until 1924, It is a weak system that Remington abandoned in favor of the left side mounted screw (take down system) for the third generation of #4 rifles almost always found with round barrels.  Remington pistols made on both the Navy and Army frames have breech block and hammer mounted on pins with pin retainer plates.   
If you see a #4 rifle in center fire configuration, that will also be an aftermarket modification as Remington only produced for sale #4s in rim fire cartridges.   
As for the military cadet rifles made on the Navy pistol frames, They are well documented in Landskron's book and it is practically the only source for most of that information.

It is my impression that converting a rifle to a pistol is forbidden by Federal law. I have seen some early single shot rifles that had been converted years ago. Is there a "cutoff" date that lets early/antique rifles to be converted?