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jeff4570
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lONG Range
May 25th, 2011 at 9:36pm
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Im new to the blackpowder game,Im Trying to get some loads for the long haul together,Got some excellant ones out to the 200 yardline,But im curious,What velocity am im looking for for the long range stuff?Im hopeing to go to 1000 yards very soon And was wondering what velocity range should I need in the 45,s for that range?Ive got a 45 70 and 45 90,Would like to walk them both out.
Any help would be most appreciated.
  
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ssdave
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Re: lONG Range
Reply #1 - May 25th, 2011 at 11:52pm
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I'd personally aim for 1300 to 1375 fps with a 540 grain bullet in a .45 for 1000 yards.  Some people are doing well with 560 grains in the 1200-1250 range.  I'd pick a heavy bullet over higher velocity if I had to trade off.

dave
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: lONG Range
Reply #2 - May 26th, 2011 at 2:49am
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Wow,  1375 with 540grs is AWFULLY fast for a BP rifle!  1300 would be more than enough (and a more realistic goal with a 45-90).
I'd try for a minimum of 1200fps with a good design (good BC) bullet - the lower your MV, the better your ES will need to be.  Anything higher would be better, of course - as long as your ES continues to be good.
And yes, the 45-70 can do it, no issues there - I know some people shooting with MV's in the 1170's and getting more than decent LR results.
FWIW, a heavy bullet is not enough - you need a bullet that is aerodynamically efficient and stable at those ranges.
  
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Old-Win
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Re: lONG Range
Reply #3 - May 26th, 2011 at 9:39pm
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Jeff, tell us what you have for bullets and twist rates in your rifles.  If your begining your quest now, I would stick with the Creedmoor/Postell type nose.  Bullets between 1.40-1.42" and about 66-68 grs. of Swiss in your 45-70 should give you about 1185-1200 fps. For your 45-90, you could go to a bullet of about 1.45" in length and about 84-87 grs of Swiss powder.  That should give you around 1300 fps.  All this depends on your chamber and brass.  You can increase powder charges by using bullets with reduced front driving bands at about .450" to get it started up the tube. If you want to go to the 1000 yd line, concentrate on the 45-90 but as Gert mentioned, many matches of that length have been won with a 45-70. Many experienced shooters are playing with Metford nose shapes and ellipticals but it may not be the best bullet to get started with. Bob
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2011 at 9:44pm by Old-Win »  
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harry_eales
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Re: lONG Range
Reply #4 - May 27th, 2011 at 12:41am
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Jeff4570,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Black Powder shooting. 

As a newbie to this there is one thing you should be aware of, assuming that is, that you are not 'au fait' with it already. 

In loading Black Powder cartridges. there should never be any airspace. If the powder charge and a lube disc do not meet the base of the fully seated bullet then that space must be taken up with Cork, Card or Felt wads.

Failure to do this can and does cause 'ringing' of the barrel. This is not a musical note, but damage which can spoil accurace and or make extraction of fired cartridge cases difficult if not nigh impossible. There is no such thing as a 'squib load' in BP cartridge shooting

If your in a gunclub, there are almost certainly others shooting Black Powder, you can learn a lot just by watching and asking questions.

Black Powder shooting is an addiction, and there is no cure.  Wink

Harry
  
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plastikosmd
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Re: lONG Range
Reply #5 - May 27th, 2011 at 6:07am
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on the note of 'no space' and not to highjack the thread, what about false muzzle loaded breech seaters?  I was told that load the case, powder plus wad/dacron/whatever, but the projectle sits about 1/16 off the case mouth once seated correctly? new to the breech seating game (with muzzle loaded slug)

back on topic, wish I had a 1000y range to play with, stuck with 200 in this small state, you guys are lucky
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: lONG Range
Reply #6 - May 27th, 2011 at 8:03am
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Actually, there's not really a risk with airspace and BP (sorry Harry) - This technique was even advised by W. W. Greener in case of not having a powder of the correct granulation (only too fine) available for loading.  Of course,  that doesn't mean you should use very small amounts of powder in large cases - I personally want at least 70% of the available powder space to be filled.
Still, for competition use, no airspace still is a good idea, as it is a good way to reduce ES and improve general consistency (read accuracy) - and the only way to load without neck tension.
So, if you want to shoot at 1,000, it would be better to heed Harry's advice, even if only in order to have loads that perform.   
I do use loads with airspace, but mainly in cases so big that I either would have to put in such a ridiculously large amount of powder (ever shoot 120grs of Fg in a 577-450 Martini?  Quite an experience...), or just reduce the charge.  A wad column is no option in a bottleneck case, and most fillers potentially even more dangerous.
For match rifle, I use full-case loads as that works best accuracy-wise.  As a rule, the more powder you use, the better the rifle will shoot...
  
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boats
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Re: lONG Range
Reply #7 - May 27th, 2011 at 11:48am
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Always been a lot of debate on airspace in BP loads.   

Personal opinion is no airspace is good advice in old Shotguns or thin wall Musket barrels. Modern Blackpowder cartridge barrel using fixed no need for airspace best results are with all the black powder the case will hold. If breech seating there is airspace in every round fired, no way around it.

I have fired thousands of rounds in my Douglas barreled 38/55 CPA breech seated with airspace between bullet and black powder. No problems. If it rings will cut the barrel off and re-chamber or replace.  I have a friend thats a sucessfull long range shooter. He campaigned a 45/70 for some time breech seating. Used a 45/70 case with a paper roll inserted and folded over on top of the powder to get 45/90 charges in the shorter case. He has since re-chambered the rifle for the 45/90. Suffered no ill effects from the airspace breech seated 45/90 loads

Boats
  
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plastikosmd
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Re: lONG Range
Reply #8 - May 27th, 2011 at 2:35pm
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Thank u
  
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