Some convoluted reasoning by a blacksmith:

A .223 is accepted as being just about right for woodchucks, coons, coyotes and so on.  It delivers about 1300 foot pounds of energy.  The reason (in my opinion) that it is so affective is that the little bullet never leaves the animal--it delivers all of its 1300 foot pounds into the target.  The 45-70 also delivers about 1300 foot pounds (in lighter loads) but its bullet does not stop in the animal--it blasts through it, drilling a hole and delivering most of its energy into the bank behind it.  It is not good on woodchucks.

The velocity of black powder is pretty much constant, between 1100 and 1600 fps.  If you reduce the caliber, you don't get much higher velocity.  Therefore, if you reduce the caliber, you reduce the energy.

I want to deliver 1300 foot pounds, but I want the bullet to stop in the animal. The only way to get the energy I want with black powder velocities is to use a large caliber; the only way to get the bullet to stop is for it to be short, with a terrible coefficient and low density.  These two requirements combined brings me to the .577 Snider.  With a nearly full wad cutter, in a light bullet, it should deliver a great blast to the animal without a lot of penetration--and without the danger of the bullet carrying far.

And yes, we have large varmints.  Cougar are becoming increasingly common in our area, and if I ever have to defend myself against one or kill one in my stock pen, I will not want a little caliber.

Am I rational or not?

A 12 gauge makes too much recoil and uses too much powder and lead.  70 grains behind a 400 grain bullet is about all I want to shoot in a lighter gun.  My double barrel 12 gauge is too much for my atlas even with moderate loads of 1F.

Sometimes whistle pigs drop with a good shot, and sometimes they don't.  I shot one with my 45-100 last year diagonally through the lungs and out the other side below the diaphram, with entrails 4" out the exit.  It ran 15 yards and died on its hole bank.  Had it been closer to its hole, I would not have known if it were dead.  I've shot them in the head with the same gun and had to shoot them twice.  (Sorry to be gory.)  I am looking for a little more shock than the 500 grain bullet I have been using.  I'm gonna try some backwards like Screwloose said to do and see how that does it.   

In the mean time, I'll keep dreamin and imagining what gun I'll put together, and when I do, I'll let you all know how it performs.  I'll probably ask a zilllion questions first though, so please be patient with me.

I'll see if I can lay my hands on that article, Terry.  Thanks.

Another option would be a round ball. They are one of the best killers. What I've done in my cap and ball is to size down a .490 ball to .454 for more bearing area. You could do the .615 ball that way, and fill the front of the case with lube.

Frank

y'all ain't serious about the 1300ft*lb energy are you? Reminds me of folks sayin that old Elmer's loads were not effecient. Elmer said, "effiency be d***ed. I want to kill the critter"! I believe it was Elgin Gates who got a chance at an unplanned elephant hunt and was supplied with a Snider and original military ammo. Because of old ammo, a round or two squibbed and bounced off forehead before a good round killed him dead. Everone knows that by foot pounds the Snider on elephant is suicidal, cept the tusker!

The scenario presented reminds me of a certain whistle pig shot at close range with a 160 FMJ from a 6.5x54mm. The critter kept sittin straight up fore realizin he was dead and supposed to fall over. Prob'ly same with ole Snidey with .600RB or a patched up minie.

Well Don, it sounds like a Snider would be good on anything from woodchucks to elephants.  How perfectly practical! 

Oh, I know Harry.  We were talking about turning a light bullet upside down for woodchucks so there is a huge meplat and a big energy splat.  I'd still want all 1300 foot pounds delivered--a full charge.  Bigger game would want a heavier, rounded bullet.  Thank you for your concern though.

[quote Well Don, it sounds like a Snider would be good on anything from woodchucks to elephants.  How perfectly practical!   [/quote]


Just havin some fun gents, but fun is what ole Snidey is all about!

My particular fun load is a .600" pure lead round ball, 60 gr of 2F BP topped by Cream of wheat and two card wad with a grease cookie between. The amount of CoW is determined by how much it takes to compress slightly and allow ball to seat just below it's centerline in relation to the case mouth. One could seat the ball flush with case mouth.
This load shoots minute of chicken at 100 yd, is comfortable to shoot and gives a satisfying BOOM.

Snider cases made from Magtech brass hulls, when fired in my chamber, come out looking almost straight. To lessen working the brass too much I use a "neck sizer" to reduce the "neck" just enough to grip the .600" ball tight. Can also paper patch a minie up to fit snugly too. 

Don

Whistlepigger, have you looked over at the British Militaria Forums, on the Snider section?  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links);

I'm sure that many of your questions would be answered there by folks who've been there & done that!

David

p.s.:  My Snider is in 40-50 SS, with an octagon barrel, tang sight, added on pistol grip...