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KAF
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Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Feb 21st, 2011 at 8:57am
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Is one better than the other or are they about the same?
  
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ledball
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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #1 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:30am
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Keith, I have several of each and see not real difference, lathe bored is supposed to be more round etc. but I haven't found it so, I think what makes the lathe bored mould appealing it the fact that we can get the mould [bullet] we need. I have a Stevens-Pope 38/55 with a groove Dia. of about .380, it would be near impossible to find a cherry-cut mould of that size.   ledball
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #2 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:51am
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Nah, that's easy... first you have the custom cherry made. ($$$), then you have the mold made ($$$), then you see if it works!
Then, of course, to refine the design, you have a couple more cherries made...

Lathe sure has some advantages for small production runs!

As for which is "better"?  No idea... I haven't used enough molds to render an opinion. 
I can't really see that they'd be all that different from each other as long as they're made well by either method though.
Could be wrong, of course....

Paul F.
  
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38_Cal
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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #3 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 12:39pm
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Check this guy out:  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links); Within his machinery and cutter limitations you can design your own bullet online and have it made in your choice of block materials.  I don't own any of his moulds, but I've talked with a few folks who do over the years, and they told me that they work well.

David
  

David Kaiser
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KAF
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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #4 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 12:49pm
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Thanks for the info Dave, I just asked the question thinking it would be a good discussion topic, and I was curious also to what folks thought.
  
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Jim_Borton
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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #5 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 3:46pm
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Do u think the bullet knows if it`s lath bored or cherry cut when it come out the end of the barrel?
I think it`s the same as the barrel! all swage to fit.
  

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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #6 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 4:02pm
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I've found no difference between lathe, bored, cherry cut or nose pour versus base pour (though I'm sure Ol' Harry will not agree). What will make a difference is how round it is. Even if the out side is trued by the barrel, the enter bullet groove diameter will never become true to the OD. 

The fit of the pins is very important (as in totally) when the mold is made and when it's used.

Frank
  

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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #7 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 4:26pm
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I have had .003" bullets out of round (undersize) bump and swage up to still shoot well. A .007" bullet out of round sure resulted in lots of gas cutting and poor accuracy. 

Lath and cherry cutting ussually results in bullets close to dimension and without being very unconcentric.

Still not sure why some production molds come out so far out of round.

Custom lath or cherry cut molds I have had were ussually very precise. So is it the process or the quality of the manufacturer?
  
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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #8 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 5:09pm
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Unless you have a CNC lathe,(most custom makers do) you are somewhat limited on bullet shapes, i.e., it is very difficult to cut a curved shape on the forward half with a manual lathe. Harry Pope made some pretty nice moulds without cutting this ogive.
Chuck  
  
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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #9 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 7:38pm
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I am with Jim Borton, once the bullet is seated into the throat and takes on those dimensions I would tend to think the chambering job would supersede the exact roundness of the bullet as it would be just like running it through a sizer die in an attempt to make perfect of which the chamber will do.

J.Louis
  

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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #10 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 8:01pm
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    I agree with J Louis, if the bullet is not perfectly round the throat and barrel is going to make it round.  Anything up to .001 out of round is good enough for me.   ledball
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #11 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 8:05pm
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1.Tapered bullets don't reform except for the land engraving and the part that is above groove diameter. So, the forward part (ogive) can be off center after being BSed.

2. The main mass of the bullet is the area below the groove bottoms isn't much effected by being BSed. So even though you've re-sized part or all of the bands, the area below the grooves can be eccentric to the groove and bore.

3. Out of round (eccentric) bullets will shoot reasonably well if indexed but, I can not see how they could shoot as well as concentric bullets unless the round bullets distort under acceleration or are gas cut if all else is equal.

Frank
  

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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #12 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 8:28pm
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Frnkeore  just as soon as you yank on the trigger if the alloy is not to hard they will bump up and become a perfect fit.

In all honesty I would be more concerned with shooting a real sharp pointed bullet ( spitzer ) and the nose slump that is associated with it!

When the gun goes bang the nose of the bullet stays stationary for a short period of time while the base of the bullet trys to catch up with it at which time the nose of the bullet will slump in one direction or another which is not predictable and will cause more defined off shots than a bullet that is just a tad out of round.

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frnkeore
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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #13 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:02pm
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That would be true if not for the lube in the grooves, you can not compress the lube and once the bullet spins outside of the barrel, it will spin on it's axis based on it's weight distribution about that axis. It will find it's rotational center based on the center of it's mass, no matter how it starts out spining contained in the barrel. Causing more problems for a spitzer type design than a wad cutter type.

That said, would anyone choose (buy) a out of round bullet as opposed to a round one
  

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Re: Lathe bored or Cherry cut mould
Reply #14 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:24pm
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Two issues here, maybe more.

Some folks have reported good accuracy with oval bullets - ok, what does 'good' mean?

Dr Mann recorded the path of the bullet that was not co-axial with the bore (tilted).  It moved down range (IFRC) in a spiral.  Orienting it helped the group size by moving the group postion from random to one place or another around the clock.

SO, are lathe-bored or cherry-cut moulds more predisposed to be seated coaxial to the bore?  (concentric means same center, coaxial means same axis, and in America we tend to use these interchangeably.)

Either could be just as perpendicular with the base - as a facing cut could be made before/after boring.

I would think that the SEATING of the bullet and the matchup of the bullet and throat would have more to do with coaxiality than how the mould was made.

  

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