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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Dacron Wad (Read 12042 times)
ledball
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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #15 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 8:27am
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I saw my first kapok tree in Key West, FL a couple years ago.  ledball
  
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screwloosetc
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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #16 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 10:02am
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Boats
You just convinced me that breachseating is usefull in load developement. I always increased charge intil the group tightened. Made use of the loading bench at the range. Your method makes sense and you get there sooner with less shooting.
Tom
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #17 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 10:04am
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As Keith has said please buy the Dell / Schwartz book. Charlie did a lot of work on how ringing occurs and could ring chambers at will by changing how a load was put together. He also found that most times that ringing is not one catastrophic event, but something that is done slowly over time.  His chapter on ringing is eye opening. 
  I was also sure that someone would tell me how he had used Dacron all his life and never rung a barrel. I sincerely hope that his luck holds. The fact remains that for others especially those who are lucky enough to have original barrels real damage can easily be done by using Dacron as wadding. 
40 Rod
  
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Whistlepigger
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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #18 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 11:48am
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Okay, Boats, what you say about the rifle's position shows that powder position in low volume charges will affect shot placement.  In his book, 40 years with the 45-70, Paul Matthews talks about that too with squib loads. It would follow that there needs to be some way to keep the powder in one position.   

I'll ask again, does dacron pose a risk even with these very low loads?

Has anyone played around with extra deep bullet seating in order to use up some room?  I suppose it'd throw any trace of accuracy off, but who knows?  I'm only really looking for 50 yard woodchuck accuracy from a squib anyway.  Any farther, I'd stuff in a real one.
  
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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #19 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 4:03pm
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WP

All this is just my opinion somebody else may see it another way

I would not use Dacron under any conditions, It's a synthetic product that has burn qualities I don't want in my Rifles.  Put a couple of pieces on the floor and touch a match to it have a look at the gummy mess it makes. I know guys have done well with it but it's not for me.

Kapok is not generally available anymore so the only wad I even consider is something cut specifically for the case out of cork or card material. I do use a thin wad when Black Powder breech seating in order to get the case in the chamber without spilling. It's vegetable fiber bought from Walters. Full load fixed black in 38/55 or 45/70 I use a very thin card wad from Walters. this to protect the bullets base and help to protect the powder when seating the bullet.

On Unique or any other small charge big case load and the variable points of impact .  One of the most important things in any shooting is to always mount the gun same way every time, You could come up with a load were burn is not going to be affected by inconsistent position but everything else is still affected. Better to be consistent than come up with a way you can mount up or down and have the load shoot true.

My 38/55 I use 3 different 300 gr bullets one for Black hardly fits in the case at all leaving powder room. One for Smokeless is deep seated to use up air space, Breech seated bullet never goes in the case. 

I am not sure you can go any deeper than my Saeco factory bullet and still engage the rifling properly, Using 4759 or 4227 it's not real sensitive to powder position but you can bet mines in the front of the case anyway, placing the butt in my shoulder and raising on target.  In the 32/40 when I squib load it with a 115 gr Unique is not taking up 15 % of the air space works fine handled properly.

Use Unique for Squibs just make sure you mount the gun same way every time is my advice

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frnkeore
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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #20 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 10:20pm
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I shot very light flexible foam (1/8 thick, cut into 1" squares) wads for a couple of years.........but, then I rang a chamber. I haven't used any kind of wad since.

As for Unique in the 45/70. I did subsonic load development with 10.0 gr BSed at 970 fps, a very accurate load. About 3/4 inch groups at 100 yds and no flyers
  

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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #21 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 10:32pm
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Frank years ago 10 of Unique was the winning Trapdoor load at the Fairfax club, then most went to 8.4 of W 231

It's the heard mentality one guy does well and others switch looking for the magic load.  10 of Unique with a light bullet is a very good 45/70 target load.  24 of 4759 is too,

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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #22 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 10:33pm
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ledball wrote on Feb 17th, 2011 at 8:27am:
I saw my first kapok tree in Key West, FL a couple years ago.  ledball


Was it behind Sloppy Joes ?

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BP
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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #23 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 11:00pm
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Boats, 

I agree with the points you've made. I too avoid the use of a wad whenever possible to prevent the introduction of another variable. We definitely have enough to contend with as is. 

I do not use a deep-seated card, vege-fiber, floral foam or poly wad at the target range (even if it were to be positioned so as to allow the face of the powder charge to slump). As you point out, a shooter can avoid the two group target by using a consistent approach when mounting the rifle. 

Where I do use the tuft is for the occasional shot in the field at small game, and which usually occurs at sighting angles both above and below those we normally use punching paper. Without the tuft, I'm back to the two-shot group. 
Note: edit that last line to say two-group target - it's late and been a looong day!   Roll Eyes

The dacron I’ve experimented with is an unwoven fibrous material, somewhat similar to very coarse fly-body dubbing before you roll it around the thread and then wind it onto the shank of your hook. It will keep the powder in position near the primer, but the open fibers allow powder gases to flow through. 

It will melt when exposed to a direct flame, but the expelled tufts I have retrieved after firing have remained unfused. Haven’t gotten any goo from the cases or bores after cleaning either. 

I’ve looked for extra-coarse fly-body dubbing to get away from the plastic fibers, but haven’t located it in economical packages. It would probably be about like taking a very coarse felt and pulling it back apart before use in the cartridge. 
« Last Edit: Feb 18th, 2011 at 2:33am by BP »  

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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #24 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 6:52am
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BP what you could do is put some material in a small electric Coffee bean grinder and spin it out. That's how we make up dubbing with synthetics for large salt water flys. This to avoid buying it from the suppliers in quantity. Those flys need lots of material and want something bulky that won't absorb water. Some of our Striper Fly's are on 5/0 long shank hooks big and bulky is what works.

Targets are one thing hunting loads very different . If I was looking for small game loads sub sonic in a light single shot I would probably try some sort of tuft ahead of the powder.  I also think I would give any chosen material a burn test just to see what can happen. Of course it takes more than fuel for burn and in most cartridges there is not enough oxygen to start something going if not formulated for burning. That's why powders have holes in the grains. Still my preference would be for something natural not synthetic.

All of this is rambling though not a lot of direct experience with Tuft wads.

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Whistlepigger
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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #25 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 11:20am
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You fellows seem to be distinguishing between wad and tuft.  (Gee, it should not have taken me this long to notice that.)  What I am talking about is the fluffy tuft stuff like what you are describing, BP.  I never put a hard wad against any powder with an air gap before the bullet.  I would think that certainly could cause a chamber ring.  But the fluffy tuft?   Other than the added unknown combustible and the inability to precisely measure it, is tuft regarded to be dangerous in light loads?   

I loaded up some squibs last night without tuft, but it is so windy today, any trials would be useless.
  
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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #26 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 12:33pm
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WP out of  my comfort zone on  that one, been 20 years since I used Kapok

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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #27 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 4:58pm
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As a suggestion. If your looking at load position as the priory here, why not just go with a duplex black. 15% is a safe load in 45/70 with powders in the range of 4759 to H110 (I've used both 4227 and 296 included also) with FG. If you don't want quite as much velocity drop to 10%. Actually a wad could be considered duplex, a second thing in the case. After ringing my chamber, I want nothing to do with any type of wad. I thought it was safe to do and did (read, got away with it) it for two years and then, one day at a match, my case wouldn't extract and had to use my cleaning rod to get it out. The next case did the same thing!

Frank

PS
I will shoot higher loads in a low wall than others will do but, I will not put a wad below the case mouth on ANY gun!!!
  

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Whistlepigger
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Re: Dacron Wad
Reply #28 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 9:25pm
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Frnkeore,

In this case I am working up a squib load.  The bullet I am playing with is much shorter than my twist would like, so I need to keep my velocity way down for any kind of stability.  Also, I need the lighter loads for around the buildings, and I don't want black there because of fire hazard.  If I don't get where I want to go with the 4198, I think I will try Unique, like you and Boats suggested earlier.  Wind's gotta quit first though...

I am no longer considering tuft for my accuracy load and will be looking elsewhere for the flyers, as has been suggested by folks here.
  
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