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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots? (Read 7646 times)
henpeckedmuch
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Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Feb 14th, 2011 at 11:32am
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I've got a Highwall in 40-50 ss set up for breach seating. Are 40 caliber guns used in schutzen matches?
  
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nobearsyet
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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #1 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 11:39am
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Sure are, there's a rule thread on here, as long as it complies it's GTG for ASSRA competition, the biggest thing I've found is trying to build a good gun for ASSRA Schuetzen, bench rest, and NRA BPCR silhouette is a little tougher.
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #2 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 12:19pm
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FYI, the long-run record for turkeys (385 meters) in BP Silhouette was set by a 40-50 (bottle neck). I was there at the match in Shippensburg, Pa when Eric Stevens set the record, using a 44 1/2 Stevens rifle and iron sights. I think it was 33 in a row. He probably would have shot more but he ran out of ammo and had to use his chicken load. 'Not sure if that record still stands.
  
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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #3 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 1:01pm
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I've got a Highwall in 40-50 ss set up for breach seating. Are 40 caliber guns used in schutzen matches?

I've been at matches with .22 Hornet on one side of the line and 45-90 with black powder on the other.  Shoot what you have that meets the match rules, if the bug bites, then go with a dedicated rifle.  Remember that at one time, 38-55 was considered a smallbore rifle for match purposes!  The advantage of the 32 caliber (and smaller) rifles it that in a long match, the fatigue factor will be in the shooter's favor over heavy recoiling rifles.

David
  

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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #4 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 1:23pm
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[quote author=5B565D4356505856575E46505B330 link=1297701141/0#0 date=1297701141]I've got a Highwall in 40-50 ss set up for breach seating. Are 40 caliber guns used in schutzen matches? [/quot

No not very often and very few shooters use a .40 in schuetzen matches. It has to much recoil. The most common is 32/40, 38/55, 32MS. 

                              Joe.  Smiley

                                   
  

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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #5 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 1:42pm
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Schuetzenmaster at Thurmont MD runs a .40 and over match. Encourages the big boys to turn out. That 40/50 ought to be a mild recoiler if the rifle has some weight and bullet is not too heavy

As far as pure ability to score our club 40 shot 200 yard offhand gong match pair of 45/70's and a well set up .43 Spanish beat my 38/55 last month.  All 3 were handled by very good shooters. I can't say there rifles handicapped them at all. Offhand if the rifle has some weight .40's are no disadvantage particularly in the shorter string Agg matches or re-entry's.  100 shot Hudson if  shot in difficult wind conditions or if trying to shoot the 100 in one day most .40's would be a handicap.

Bench guessing only .40 would be a handicap depending on the way the rifle is stocked and set up.

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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #6 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 2:10pm
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If you look at equipment lists you will see that very very few .40s are used in schuetzen matches.  You can use any caliber you want of course. 

I'm just answering his question Boats.  The older I get the less loudenboomers I want to shoot.  Wink   

              Joe.  Smiley
  

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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #7 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 2:28pm
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I've got a Highwall in 40-50 ss set up for breach seating. Are 40 caliber guns used in schutzen matches?


The rules allow for 'any sights' or 'iron sights'.  Since the .40 or over is the only 'iron sights' designated match, that's what I bring.  I would love to shoot iron sights in less than .40, but that's like taking a knife to a gun-fight.  (maybe I'm too optimistic on my capabilities too   Grin )
  

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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #8 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 3:37pm
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Westerner agree formal Schuetzen not many 40's however most of the Schuetzen around here is shot from easy chairs.

Our club matches we get 2 or 3 dozen turn out for offhand and a lot of over 40 calibers are used. 

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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #9 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 4:02pm
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At the Butte match in December, the calibers are bigger. Thats a BP match. Not uncommon to see someone using a 45/120.  Jerry Prouty shot a 1874 Sharps 40/50.   

I guess it depends on what sort of schuetzen match we're talking about ?   My best BP offhand scores are with the 32/40.  Usually when someone shows up with a 40 or bigger rifle at a ASSRA schuetzen match around here we snicker and point fingers.  If Steve Garbe shows up with a .40/50 schuetzen rifle, we say oh crap! 

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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #10 - Feb 14th, 2011 at 4:53pm
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You are right about the recoil limiting performance. My best offhand scores have always been with .22 rimfires. Often think about a 28 caliber Schuetzen but stick with the 32/40 because that's what everybody else does.

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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #11 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 7:56am
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Historically, in the last half of the nineteenth century the target ranges were getting shorter and the calibers were getting smaller.  When you see period references to long range and mid range, they refer to 1000 and about 600 yds respectively, and one needed big 40+ calibers to get the job done.  Our current 200 yd (or nearly the same, "40 rod") matches came along about the same time the cartridges hit .38-something.  Thirty two - forty became the one to beat, but .28s and .25s had their supporters as well.

Flash forward to the late 20th century, and match organizers are trying to encourage participation.  Some "over 40" matches develop to get folks in, but they remain specialty matches, and anyone really serious about competing in schuetzen, especially the 50- and 100 shot events goes to a kinder, gentler caliber.  It appears that .33-40 or -47 is the all around best cartridge for all purposes and conditions at 200 yards.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it!  Cool

Froggie
  
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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #12 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:34am
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Froggy's right the tend was that the calibers got smaller at the dawn of the 20th century. Pope experimented with .25 and .28 before coming back to .32 and finally .33. Having said all that The first guy that I remember shooting a 250 did it with a 40-70. It has remained his favorite caliber.

40 Rod
  
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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #13 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 10:26am
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It sort of depends on the .40 and how it's handled.

Full power load 40/65 Silhouette gun is not going to shoot with a 32/40 Schuetzen.  Last winter friend of mine used a .40 Wesson sub sonic in the Conestoga gallery matches and did well with it.

The caliber has an effect due to ballistic efficiency of the bullet. Short light big ones are not as efficient as long slim small ones. However ruling factor scoring with the low velocity under 1500 fps and short range (200) we shoot is always going to be recoil. And that's tempered by the rifles weight and how it 's stocked.

My  bet is 40 Sharps straight in a well set up High Wall could be a very good shooter in 200 yard offhand matches. 

Get in a match little things  can make a major difference.  One Hudson match last season I was plagued by poor spotting, 32 caliber in difficult conditions. Big hole easy to see would have gained points that particular match.  Far more than any difference in the ballistic efficiency.  Crossfire 11 on one target took off a 25 center and added edge 17   9 on the other target cost a potential 25 likely 20 at least . That's a major drop, never happens with my 38/55 Old days they had pits with marked targets, like modern High power with .223's you don't need to see the hole.

Boats
« Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2011 at 10:39am by boats »  
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Re: Is 40 caliber rifles used in Schutzen type shots?
Reply #14 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 11:06am
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At one time I "owned" a Ballard Schuetzen #10 in 40-63. Rifle in pristene condition with perfect bore. So I know Marlin made them there Schuetzens in .40 cal. Somehow I let it get away.   Don
  
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