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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Turned brass cases? (Read 16368 times)
rmc
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Re: Turned brass cases?
Reply #30 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 6:57pm
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Text on photos to follow.
  
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rmc
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Re: Turned brass cases?
Reply #31 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 7:18pm
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The 450-400 cases show two cases that are made and formed , one with the neck not annealed prior to forming and the other annealed first.
The Second photo is showing an old WCF 38-55 and one of the RMC 38-55 .  notice the side walls . the RMC is concentric where the old WCF drawn case is off center.

The third photo is showing the 577-450 MH case I mentioned in an earlier post showing the change is size when being formed.  this isdone in two steps and then re annealed.

The last photo shows a R2 Lovell case and a couple of special order longer than spec 25-20 cases   One of them really got customized by the Dog.  and did not even crack..............

What I have found, is turned brass is not for everyone, nor all applications.  It is more expensive to produce than drawn brass . and   I am  not trying to compete with the cost of drawn brass because I can't, as mentioned earlier.

What turned brass will offer the customer, is an absolutely concentric and consistent dimension each and every time.  and the source for a cartridge that is a perfect fit to your guns chamber ,if it cannot be made from an existing case , as well as custom and special sizees.
This is a plus for those who are looking for uniformity and consistancy in the quest  for the most potential for accuracy from the cartridge case aspect of loading.
Thanks,
Dave Casey
  
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MIKE-T
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Re: Turned brass cases?
Reply #32 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 8:03pm
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Dave very informative, learned a lot of new things about turned cases.  Smiley Smiley Smiley
Thank You, MIKE-T
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Turned brass cases?
Reply #33 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 10:38pm
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Dave,
Very good information. The machining on those cases is beautiful. That is not done by an amateur. My compliments on your work.
Chuck
  
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rmc
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Re: Turned brass cases?
Reply #34 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 11:17am
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Thanks guys, 
I hope this has answered some questions about machined brass.
I am going to take it a little further,   A neighbor shop building a new lever gun has a hardness tester in their shop and has offered to let me check the hardeness in the case heads on brass cases.  I am going to compare a belted mag case to a standard 30-o6 and a 38-55 to see just what the actuall differense is.  Will post the results as soon as I can get it done.
I have not made any brass for modern high velocity chamberings as I know the case head will not hold the high pressure.  and brass cases for modern chamberings is readily available.  So I only produce cases for the old chamberings and lead bullet loadings .typically in the 1400 -1600 fps  range, but have chronographed loads up to 1800-1900 fps with great results. for big game hunting loads.
Although one customer that is manufacturing a 70 caliber bolt action gun for dangerous game use, has been loading a 1000 gr. bullet at around 2200fps,   ouch! makes me hurt thinking about it

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Dave Casey
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Turned brass cases?
Reply #35 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 2:54pm
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Dave,
For modern high pressure rounds, you can increase the thickness of the head. Minimum for all solid head large rifle primed cases is .200 and at least .18 - .19 for small primers. In the reduced capacity cases that I made, I always used .250 as a minimum thickness to insure that I didn't have to be careful with loading. I never lost a case to pressure at the head, just neck collapse. I got the idea of increasing the head thickness to gain extra pressure from a old article about the difference in pressures that the belted mag's cases would with stand. They sectioned the cases and found that the case that could be loaded to much higher velocity had a thicker head. By how much, I don't remember but, it was visually thicker (guessing, I'd say .030 -.050 thicker). The primer pocket is the weak spot in a case and after it expands, so that a primer is loose, it's done for.

You may be able to reliably calculate the head thickness you need, based on the differance in the yield strenght from half hard to the higher hardness of the drawn brass.

Frank
  

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rmc
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Re: Turned brass cases?
Reply #36 - Jan 25th, 2011 at 3:36pm
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Frank,

I have always used  .200 thickness in the head in all cases unless ordered otherwise for more or less capacity,  and most all drawn cases I have measured also have from .180-.200 thick solid heads.  The old balloon and transitional cases were much thinner. 
 
And you are correct, the the primer pocket in the  head is  the problem with  pressure.swaging open due to the pressure exceeding the brass strength.  The same happens with too hot of charges with drawn brass 
What I have found ,as a rough limit, that 38,000 CUP is the limit for pressure in the C360 half hard bar. no matter the size of the head.

I have used Naval bronze C485 and also Phosphfor bronze C544 to produce a stronger head of the same dimension, to with stand a bit higher pressures , but the cost of material in todays market is absolutely prohibitive to use those alloys.

Interesting your comment about the neck collapsing, I have found the tendency for the neck to collapse is from to low of pressure to expand the neck and seal the chamber when breech seating. on cases such as the 32-40 etc.  I found increasing the load a grain or so solved the tendency to collapse the necks. and stopped the sooting of the case mouth as well.

It will be intersting to see what the actual difference in hardness of the three cases that shows up in the test.

Anyway, I am really not interested in producing cases for high pressure loadings, I am mainly concerned with the old obsolete and other  chamberings that use lead bullet loadings and velocities ,so the C360 is just fine for what we are doing and gives plenty of a strength factor in the head for the pressure devoloped for those purposes.

Thanks,
Dave Casey
  
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