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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) I have got to stop buying on impulse. (Read 9870 times)
runningiron
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I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Jan 14th, 2011 at 12:09pm
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I saw a High Wall on GunBroker last week - priced affordably and in a caliber I have always wanted to have, so I placed a bid.  The rifle had been reblued and restocked, but the ad said it had the original .22 Hornet barrel.  I knew the hornet was commercialized late in the manufacturing life of the High Wall, so I was expecting a coil-spring action.  I picked it up a the Post Office this morning, took it home, and promptly pulled the forearm.  Imagine my surprise when I saw that flat mainspring.  At that point, I got to thinking, "When was the Hornet actually introduced?"  So, over to Wikipedia for a quick history lesson. Hmm, 1930.  When did the High Wall end its run - 1920.  So, it is an original Winchester .22 Hornet barrel, just not for a High Wall.  If I had done some research prior to bidding ...  Actually, I probably would still have bid on the rifle, but I wouldn't have been disappointed with myself for not asking the right questions.  Just hope this lesson stays with me the next time I see something I just gotta have.
  

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38_Cal
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #1 - Jan 14th, 2011 at 12:25pm
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Any chance it was a factory re-barrel?

David
  

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MI-shooter
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #2 - Jan 14th, 2011 at 12:36pm
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Didn't Winchester still do up special orders of High Walls into the 1940's based on parts in stock still??
  
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runningiron
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #3 - Jan 14th, 2011 at 1:13pm
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Gentlemen, I will be the first to admit I am very much a dilettante with respect to my knowledge of these rifles.  This is my first original Winchester High Wall.  My others are reproductions (Ballard) or the new Japanese High Walls.
It very well could be a factory rebarrel.   It is very nicely done.  As to the post-run build, I have no idea.  Where should I find the serial number?  The only number I see, on the bottom of the receiver, in front of the lever, is 17.
  

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Schuetzendave
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #4 - Jan 14th, 2011 at 1:25pm
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The serial number should be on the lower tang. If the tang was refinished; i.e. polished, the serial number may not be visible after the re-blueing.
  
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Old-Win
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #5 - Jan 14th, 2011 at 1:30pm
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The number 17 was usually found on .22 highwalls.  Does it have a rimfire breechblock?  They will have a lot of taper on the front top edge of the block for camming in .22 shells.  Is there a double proof on the barrel?  The serial number should be on the bottom tang.  Pictures would help.  Bob
  
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runningiron
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #6 - Jan 14th, 2011 at 1:30pm
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Yeah, there's nothing there.  Looks like it started out as a straight grip, then shaped into a pistol grip and polished.  The only thing visible is the patent data, and even there, the 71 is lighter than the rest.
  

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runningiron
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #7 - Jan 14th, 2011 at 1:44pm
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Bob, it is not a rimfire block.  I have not pulled the block out yet, but it has been modified for a spring loaded firing pin.  There is a bushing around the rear of the firing pin, as well, but I can't say what it looks like on the front.  My camera is dead right now, but I am attaching the photos from the GB listing.  The right side of the action is pretty nice, the left side less so.  The stock is also very nice.  I've removed the scope.
  

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Kurt_701
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #8 - Jan 14th, 2011 at 1:47pm
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In vol. 1 "The Winchester Single-Shot" , Campbell lists the .22 Hornet as a factory chambering in 26" #3  1-16" Twist. In Vol 2 on page 103 , he states,  the preponderance of the Hornets were remanufactured from Single-Shot in other calibers. This rebarreling was done by WRA co. and through out side sources.  He goes on to state Winchester sold round #3 Hornet barrel blanks as late as 1935.  If Winchester did the work, they would have reheat treated the receivers.  Therefore factory done rifles would only have blued receivers. I have a lowwall in  22 Hornet. It has a bent tang and a C.C. Johnson barrel.  It is not factory work.   
Kurt
  

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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #9 - Jan 16th, 2011 at 1:28am
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I went to the gunshow in Monroe today. Mostly just to get out of the house and I needed to renew my WAC membership. I saw a #16 Maynard in 32/35. The price was double what I thought it was worth to me. Then I saw a hiwall 40/65 and an old small frame Colt Lightning.  My legs were trying to keep going but the rest of me kept turning back. I fought the urge hard!  Finally, and considering I only had enough cash to pay my ferry fee home, I headed for the door. A perty gal said hello to me so I had to stay and talk to her. While I was talking to her I noticed a complete 1898 Krag over her shoulder on a table a couple rows over. Yep, I went over and looked at that too. had the wrong rear sight for my eyes thank God!
Finally I turned for the door when a feller slipped past me. My eye caught the forestock inlay on the rifle he was carrying, which I knew was a lowall.  How I knew that I dont know cuz all I saw was the inlay and octagon barrel. I followed him and was just about to tap on his shoulder, but my self control kicked in again and I said to myself... he probly just bought that and he doesnt need me bugging him.  
Finally got out to the truck and was petting my dog when the guy with the lowall passed by. I was caught off guard then and asked if he's just purchased a Winchester. He said no, that he was trying to sell a lowall.  He walked over and we talked about it. It was in a soft case now so was able to use my self control and not ask to see it. It was originally a .22 hipower, think thats what he said, that had been relined to .22 Hornet. I asked what he wanted, he told me, and then my legs began to get all twitchy. After reading this thread I seem to have got a new dose of self control.  I managed to tell the guy I needed another SS rifle like I need another hole in my head.  Managed to tell him to post it here on the forum.   Wink 

                          Joe.  Smiley
« Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2011 at 1:34am by westerner »  

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BP
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #10 - Jan 16th, 2011 at 3:27am
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Quote:
Is there a double proof on the barrel?


Old-Win,

Are you refering to the normal WP proof stamp, along with the P stamp that indicates the barrel is a Winchester parts barrel?


  

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Old-Win
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #11 - Jan 16th, 2011 at 11:09am
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BP, Over the years of looking at Winchesters, I've run across a few that have double proofs like this one and was either told or read somewhere that if it had been returned to the factory for rebarreling, that they double stamped them.  I'll have to get Campbells books out but I believe that Winchester made a run of a couple hundred Hornet barrels for the highwalls and that many were sent back to have original barrels replaced with the Hornets.  Not all were used and it may have been Sedgley that bought up the remaining stock and rebarreled highwalls. I'll have to do more reading.  Bob
« Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2011 at 11:15am by Old-Win »  
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runningiron
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #12 - Jan 16th, 2011 at 5:25pm
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As I mentioned before, I am fairly ignorant with respect to several of the observactions you've made, so I am posting a couple more pictures of the barrel.  The pictures have been photoshopped to bring out highlights.  Looking at it, it appears to me to have been built for a different rifle.  Note the scope mount holes on the left side of the barrel.  There is also a .22 Hornet caliber designation just barely visible under the "41079" in the profile picture.  I hadn't noticed it before, but there is a "K" following the .22 Hornet in the 11 o'clock position. I wonder if it is a K-Hornet.  The '22' following the "K" is on a flat milled onto the barrel.  The barrel is 24 inches long with a target crown.  The Winchester name and address are were I would expect them to be.  There is a patent date to the immediate right of the address on the barrel that reads Oct.  7, 1879.  I do not see any proof markings, but then again, I'm not sure what I'm looking for.  No maker name or any other markings under the forearm.
  

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slumlord44
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #13 - Jan 17th, 2011 at 12:06am
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Looks like the K was added after the fact.
  
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waterman
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #14 - Jan 17th, 2011 at 2:13am
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Looks to me like a 22 rimfire barrel that was rechambered into Hornet and then again into K-Hornet.  Slug the barrel & measure the twist.  Likely to need .223 jacketed bullets or cast only.
  
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runningiron
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #15 - Jan 17th, 2011 at 4:42pm
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That's what I was thinking. Is factory loaded ammo available with .223 bullets, or do I have to load my own from the gitgo?
  

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slumlord44
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Re: I have got to stop buying on impulse.
Reply #16 - Jan 17th, 2011 at 8:28pm
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I am not aware of any factory loads with .223 bullets. I believe that most early Hornet barrels were .223. I have a Stevens Walnut Hill in .22 Hornet that I am prety sure is a .223 barrel. I use handloads with .223 bullets. Got them from Midway. Seiria or Horniday. Don't recall at the moment and the box is in my shop somewhere.
  
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