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chamber dimentions (Read 6260 times)

Hank45 Oldtimer Offline Beer is living proof that GOD loves you Posts: 506 Location: MA Joined: Jan 21^st, 2010	chamber dimentions Jan 10^th, 2011 at 9:16am	Print Post
	Is the chamber for an everlasting shell different than a standard shell chamber, thanks for your answer, Hank45


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DoubleD Oldtimer Offline Posts: 635 Location: Cut Bank Joined: Feb 14^th, 2006	Re: chamber dimentions Reply #1 - Jan 10^th, 2011 at 10:15am	Print Post
	It has been 10 or 12 years since I messed with my 40-90 Ballard. When I got the rifle I did a chamber cast and it definitely had larger chamber dimensions than is needed for for standard brass. The was a distinct larger diameter at case mouth and a step down for the bullet and throat.

	Douglas, Ret.
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woodly Participating Member Offline Posts: 14 Location: Sheboygan, WI Joined: Nov 8^th, 2010	Re: chamber dimentions Reply #2 - Jan 10^th, 2011 at 5:16pm	Print Post
	Hank45, I am just going through the everlasting learning curve!! I have a #4 Perfection Ballard in 40-60-EL. The everlasting case was offered back in the 1880's to provide a case that would last forever. The wall thickness is twice a normal case to do this. I fire formed and shot WIN .405 brass in my gun and the case wall blew out to like .426 ID due to thin wall brass in an everlasting chamber. My bullet diameter is .410 so I had to neck size to reduce this .426 to around 409 or so. It shot fine this way. I did do a chamber cast and had Rockey Mountain Ctg make some original brass for me which I should have next week. That is it in a nutshell. It is real clear if you do a chamber cast and get your caliper out. Hope this helps, Woodly


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blackpowdermax Ex Member	Re: chamber dimentions Reply #3 - Jan 12^th, 2011 at 7:59pm	Print Post
	I think there is a misconception concerning "Everlasting" chambers. The chamber is the same, the ammunition is different. For instance, I have a 40-63 Ballard, it chambers and shoots 40-63 Ballard Everlasting cartridges and 40-70 Ballard (non-Everlasting) cartridges equally well. Because the 40-70 Ballard is thinner walled, the I.D. is larger and the volume is larger, therefore 70 grains of powder vs. 63 grains. The O.D. of both is the same. The non-Everlasting versions of the Everlasting cases came from the ammunition manufacturers. I have never seen an original Marlin-Ballard rifle marked 40-70 Ballard or 40-90 Ballard, only ammunition. However, I have a Hiwall in both of these calibers, because that is the ammunition that Winchester made. The early 40-90 Ballard Everlasting (3-1/16"), the 40-60 Ballard Everlasting, the 38-50 Ballard Everlasting, the 44-75 Ballard Everlasting, the 44-100 Ballard Everlasting, the 45-100 Ballard Everlasting and the 40-65 Ballard Everlasting had no non-Everlasting equivalents. The 32-40 Ballard, the 40-63 Ballard Everlasting and the 40-85 Ballard had both. The 38-55 Ballard was non-Everlasting only as far as I know. How did they deal with the oversize neck diameter of the non-Everlasting cases? Larger I.D. = thicker patch. The bullet is the same (roughly bore diameter), the patch paper is just thicker to take up the extra space. GG bullets are more problematic, but paper patch was the norm at the time of the Everlasting. Hope this helps.... max
	« Last Edit: Jan 12^th, 2011 at 8:52pm by »

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DoubleD Oldtimer Offline Posts: 635 Location: Cut Bank Joined: Feb 14^th, 2006	Re: chamber dimentions Reply #4 - Jan 13^th, 2011 at 9:14pm	Print Post
	I had to dig my rifle out. It's a Pacific No. 5. Fortunately the famous Antique rifle restorer who reworked this gunback in the 80's did not wipe out the markings (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Maybe they aren't real. All the time I got the rifle I was led to believe everlasting brass was heavier-thicker than non everlasting brass both having the same internal dimensions. That theory fit the apparent large chamber dimensions and the the fact that the 40-90 Sharps brass expands so much when fired in the chamber. Annealing and sizing required to hold the .413 diameter bullets.
	« Last Edit: Jan 13^th, 2011 at 9:34pm by DoubleD »
	Douglas, Ret.
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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 4014 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: chamber dimentions Reply #5 - Jan 14^th, 2011 at 9:09am	Print Post
	I've had a Ballard Pacific in what I assume (from chamber cast) to be .40-90 for several years now and it is still unshot (by me.) I had to get a .413 mould (early Borton and Darr) to fit the (slugged) bore and groove dimension, and while .405 Norma will enter the chamber, their rims are too thick, and original virgin .40 BELL Basic is too large in diameter to enter the chamber. I have one original paper patched round that will chamber fully and close, but at $30 from a collector will probably not be shooting it any time soon. I could sure use some help getting this thing up and running if somebody out there has more experience with this caliber than I do! Froggie


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DoubleD Oldtimer Offline Posts: 635 Location: Cut Bank Joined: Feb 14^th, 2006	Re: chamber dimentions Reply #6 - Jan 14^th, 2011 at 10:25am	Print Post
	I used Bertram 40-90 Sharps straight cases and dies from RCBS. I sent them a chamber cast and they made the dies. I was able to load the new unfired brass and fire it. But there was still a problems of some sort (that means I don't remember what) and I sent the chamber cast, dies and fired cases back to RCBS and they fixed what ever problems there was. I was working with Tom Ballard trying to find a bullet that worked. I had problems with keyholing and suspect my alloy was too hard. That was 10 or so years ago and I was getting frustrated so I moved on to the 577/450.

	Douglas, Ret.
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.22-5-40 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 796 Joined: Feb 13^th, 2010	Re: chamber dimentions Reply #7 - Jan 14^th, 2011 at 2:13pm	Print Post
	Hello, Hank45. although I have no personal experiance, I seem to recall reading that Elmer Keith had a Sharps. or Ballard that took the everlasting case..had such a hard time finding right cases, he sold it.


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