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9 fingers
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German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Dec 29th, 2010 at 8:23pm
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OK, 1st posting worked so here is the 2nd. The folks at Rim Fire Central recommended ASSRA and it looks like a pretty cool place.
Here is another Christmas present to myself that looked very cool and the price was right so I bought it. I have shot it and it is excellent but now I am trying to learn more of the history of this one and others like it. I was told this is a JP Sauer "Rook" gun that was resleaved in Germany in 22WMR, which was one reason I wanted it as I am a fan of the round. I know this probably destroyed the value of the gun but it is not original in several ways anyway but is of very high quality none the less. A member at RFC suggested this one was made before 1920 but I have no idea. The barrel is marked "Bohler Rasant", which is understand is very high qulaity Austrian steel. Their are vaious proof marks like "NP" STIF8 and .680 and the gunsmith that redid the bore added WMR to the mix. There are 2 other marks that I can not make out. Of course you can see the gold double triggers with the set screw between that I assume adjust trigger pull weight.  Gun is 40.5" long and the barrel is 24.5" and it weighs approx. 5.25 lbs with the scope. The scope is also interesting in that it is a Hertel & Reuss Macro Zeil 4x36-L81 with German post reticle. Both windage and elevation are in the top turret, which took me some time to figure out. If anyone here can tell me more about this little gem I would love to here what you have to say. What do you think of it? I can post more pics if anyone is interested. Thanks, 9 fingers
OH, and being new to this type of thing, what does that lever on the left side of the receiver do other than scratch the bluing?

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harry_eales
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #1 - Dec 30th, 2010 at 4:55am
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9fingers,

You may have luck posting your enquiry on the Doublegunshop Forum they have a forum section devoted entirely to mainland European firearms, doubles and singles, there's a lot of Single Shot guys over there, including many from this forum.

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Without seeing more of the rifle in additional photographs I would suggest the lever of the side of the action is a safety catch of some form.

Harry
  
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9 fingers
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #2 - Dec 30th, 2010 at 8:57am
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Thanks Harry, I will check out the site.
9 fingers
  
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9 fingers
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #3 - Jan 9th, 2011 at 12:08pm
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I have been doins some research on my own and it is looking like this is actually an Austrian firearm made by Ferlach, judging from the proof marks and the Bohler Rasant marked barrel.
9 fingers
  
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fallingblock
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #4 - Jan 9th, 2011 at 6:08pm
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9 fingers
Ferlach is a town in Austria not a manufacturer. Ferlach guns are guns made in Frelach.
Cheers,
Laurie
  

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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #5 - Jan 10th, 2011 at 7:16am
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Bohler steel was especialy rated by German gunsmiths---I have a German rifle with a barrel by Moeller in Bohler steel.
Fred
  
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #6 - Jan 10th, 2011 at 9:30am
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Harry, why were Rooks shot?  Vermin? That awful sound? Destroying crops?   

           Joe.
  

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harry_eales
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #7 - Jan 10th, 2011 at 12:18pm
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westerner wrote on Jan 10th, 2011 at 9:30am:
Harry, why were Rooks shot?  Vermin? That awful sound? Destroying crops?  

           Joe.


Hello Joe,

Rooks are members of the Crow family and are a very numerous species throughout Britain. They nest communally in tall trees and breed early in the season.  The young birds just out of the nest but not actually flying are known as 'branchers' and their meat or at least the breast meat, was a part of a countrymans seasonal diet in the late 1800's and into the early decades of the 1900's. 

It was these 'Branchers' that the Rook Rifles were made to shoot. The calibres are usually fairly small (seldom over 0.300" cal). These rounds were low powered with muzzle velocities in the .22" Long Rifle speed range. Shooting at a target on a branch anywhere from 60 -100 feet up in the air doesn't need a lot of power from the round used. It may seem like shooting ducks in a barrel, but the thin branches certainly swing about in the high winds of March and early April when these birds are suitable for eating and hitting them is not as easy as it may seem. Head shots are best as you don't want to damage the edible parts. 

Once they have learned to fly their meat gets very tough and the adults breast meat is like old boot leather. I think the meat is an acquired taste, but I have eaten it and found it quite palatable.

In the early 1900's when the .22 RF became a firm favourite the other rounds gradually got dropped from production.

Colin Greenwood an English firearms expert has a neat little book out about them and I believe that Wal Winfer has one or possibly two books coming out about them as well in the not too distant future.

Aside from Rooks these small rifles were also used to keep down four legged and some other avial predators as well. They were quite capable of taking Rabbits, Foxes, as well as Stoats, and Weasels that raid the nests of ground nesting game birds.

Harry
  
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harry_eales
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #8 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 5:39am
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Further to my previous post (I ran out of letters).

The Rook is classed as a destructive pest here and they are routinely shot at by rough shooters and gamekeepers. 

They are omniverous feeders and will eat most things but they do seem to delight in eating the eggs and the young of ground nesting game birds. Like most of the crow family they are wary birds and seem to know instinctively the maximum range of any shotgun in their vicinity. lol.

They have been used for food for centuries, although originally taken by Falconers. Even the childrens nursery song:- 'Sing a song of sixpence' has a passage relating to Four and Twenty Blackbirds baked in a pie' 

The 'Blackbirds' here in the song is the Rook, rather than the smaller and more popular member of the Thrush Family that is commonly called a Blackbird today.

Harry

  
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #9 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 5:49am
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Thanks Harry! Very interesting. I looked the bird up on the net but didnt see anything about them used for food.  I didnt look very hard. I figured you would know all about it. 

Thanks,      Joe.
« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2011 at 6:58am by westerner »  

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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #10 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:46am
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When I was young we used to play a card game called ROOK. It had a special deck of cards but I don't remember much about it other than the cards had pictures of black birds on them.
  
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #11 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 12:12pm
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Your rifle probably was intended for something larger than Rooks: the Germans liked lightweight hunting rifles. This one is in 8.15 x 46R and is engraved with a stag on one side and a boar on the other.
Fred

  
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #12 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:50pm
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Harry,

Just curious, but do you happen to know the relationship between the Rook and the Raven, or are they the same bird with a regional variation in name only?

Regards,
BP
  

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harry_eales
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #13 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 5:03am
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BP wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:50pm:
Harry,

Just curious, but do you happen to know the relationship between the Rook and the Raven, or are they the same bird with a regional variation in name only?

Regards,
BP


Hello BP,

The Rook Corvus frugilegus and the Raven Corvus corax
are, as the names indicate, distinct species. Here is Britain the Raven is a larger species than the Rook and prefer to nest on cliffs and mountain crags than in trees.

Both species have several sub species scattered around the world. The Raven is a much rarer bird in Britain then the Rook.

Harry
« Last Edit: Jan 12th, 2011 at 2:50pm by »  
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #14 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 8:52am
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Harry,

Interesting info and thank you for providing it!

BP
  

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enfieldspares
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #15 - Jan 15th, 2011 at 5:36pm
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Hello from Leicestershire, England. I hope that you will excuse my question! I'm thinking of buying a secondhand Hertel and Reuss of the EXACT type you have on your rifle.

So please can I ask is this IMAGE MOVING or RETICULE MOVING when you put in windage or elevation adjustment. The seller is in Germany and my German does not extend to the finer points of "scope technology.

Many thanks in advance.
  
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9 fingers
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #16 - Jan 15th, 2011 at 6:13pm
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Hello Enfieldspares, like your name as I am a trials rider here in the USA and ride vinatge machinary although usually it is Japanese and only '70's or '80's vintage. I also ride a modern Beta but am better on the vinatge stuff. On to your question: I am not sure. I am not a scope technology expert and never have actually thought about how the zeroing works...I just do it! Plus, my first time shooting this single shot was all new to me, just finding that the windage and elevation are all in the top turret was a surprise. When I get a chance I will dig it out of the safe (it has been about 5 degrees fahrenheit here in the morings and the guns are away till Alril most likely) and turn it a few bits to see if I can tell, although I prefer not to get it too far out of whack as it took me a few extra rounds to get it figured out and set to where it is. 
9 fingers
PS - back to bikes: I did ride a fantastic AJS trials conversion done by a gentleman about 5 hours south of me. It was amazing but I had to be careful not to drop it on the rocks we were riding so I was a little tentative.
  
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enfieldspares
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #17 - Jan 15th, 2011 at 9:34pm
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Oh no! Don't turn it as you will curse me when you have to put it back on zero! There is an easier answer. Just look through it and see if the reticule is "dead centre" in the sight or off to one side or other. If off to one side or other it is reticule moving type. If it is "dead centre" it is image moving.

Thanks for replying. My m/cycle days are long gone now. I used to have a Kawasaki 750 Turbo. My brother still has the BSA A10 that he bought over forty years ago though!
  
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9 fingers
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Re: German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?
Reply #18 - Jan 23rd, 2011 at 10:54am
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Hi Enfieldspares, sorry this took so long but finally made it to the safe and found the gun in question. Looking through the scope it appears as if the post reticle is shifted off to the left so I guess that answers your question. Mine has very bad ring marks and signs of someone trying to cover them but the optics are excellent and I paid $65 USD so well worth it in the end. Good luck to you.
9 fingers
  
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