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Slingshot_IL
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Annealing Nickel cases?
Dec 21st, 2010 at 9:06am
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Hello all,

First post here and just want to say hello. I just got a hold of some Starline 45-70 Govt. Nickel plated cases and want to anneal them. Is it OK to anneal nickel plated cases or will this cause the plating to flake or wear off? I anneal my brass cases with good results. Should I use the same method or is there some kind of voodoo I have to do beforehand? 

Thanks in advance,
Jeff / Slingshot_IL  Grin
  
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nobearsyet
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #1 - Dec 21st, 2010 at 10:43pm
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If memory serves, annealing nickel plated cases is a bad idea purely due to the risks involved with changing the basic metallurgy of the cartridge brass.
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #2 - Dec 22nd, 2010 at 6:23am
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How?  WHat changes?  Effect?
  

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40_Rod
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #3 - Dec 22nd, 2010 at 8:40am
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One of the reasons that I stopped using the nickled cases was their brittleness. they did not anneal well. At one time I had about 200 I got rid of most of them. I kept a hand full for making breech seaters they are pretty. 

40 Rod
  
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38_Cal
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #4 - Dec 22nd, 2010 at 10:12am
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Had an interesting discussion a number of years back with an old bullseye pistol competitor.  He had obtained a new batch of nickel brass just before a big two day match, loaded his ammo, and the first day, could not hit the broad side of the barn from the inside.  Made the hundred mile drive home, got out his old, unplated, brass, loaded it and the final day of the match was able to make up the difference in points lost the first day to win.  Evidently, the plated brass was giving inconsistent neck tension compared to the unplated cartridges.   

Plated brass looks pretty, but it came about because the unplated stuff would corrode in cartridge loops on gun belts with some of the tanning methods used to make the leather.   

David
  

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nobearsyet
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #5 - Dec 22nd, 2010 at 10:40am
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Cat_Whisperer wrote on Dec 22nd, 2010 at 6:23am:
How?  WHat changes?  Effect?


I have been told there are things that between the nickel and the brass when you heat the cases as hot as it takes to anneal them.  Not sure what all is involved, or even completely sure if anything does actually take place, but it would make since as when you alloy metals you heat them to get a chemical change.
  
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BP
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #6 - Dec 22nd, 2010 at 3:37pm
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I had an incident some time back that causes me to stay away from nickel plated cases. 

It involved a box of NEW factory 357 Mag rounds. Lost about a third of the cases on the first firing. The cases pulled apart with the forward portion of the case trying to follow the slug into the bore. I sent a note to the factory (one of the Big Three US ammo companies) and they replied that the chamber had to be out of spec. I sent a cerosafe casting (that showed that the chamber met SAMMI specs) back with a copy of their letter and a few of the separated cases. As far as they were concerned, I must have dropped of the face of the earth.... I never received a response. 

The only nickel-plated cases I now have are a bunch of old Rem-UMC for the 45 Colt. These are the very early solid head that look like balloon-head, and are relegated to black powder loads only. 

I stick with plain brass for everything else.
  

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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #7 - Dec 22nd, 2010 at 6:03pm
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Is there a possibility that the brass softens and the nickle hardens?  Don
  
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #8 - Dec 22nd, 2010 at 7:29pm
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Hydrogen is traped between the brass and ni when it is applied and causes brass to become brittle, if memory serves---
  
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #9 - Dec 22nd, 2010 at 8:33pm
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I've been using plated 32/40 brass with BP. No problems. Dont anneal, dont resize the cases.  Boil in water and dish soap then use a bronze bore brush to clean the crap from the inside. Dry them in the oven at about 250F.

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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #10 - Dec 23rd, 2010 at 5:13am
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Nickle does split necks easier that's for sure.  I only use them when I have to.

Boats
  
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #11 - Dec 23rd, 2010 at 12:35pm
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That batch of factory loaded nickel-case 357 rounds that gave me fits were just like case head separations, except that the cases all parted from about 1/16" to 3/16" behind the seated position of the bullet base. 

I'd fired numerous rounds from standard brass cases before the incident, and more than I can remember afterwards without any problem whatsoever. 

Reloaded case life from plain brass has been perfectly normal. The chamber is good, no marks on the fired cases, even sectioned some brass to see if a thin spot developed in the same area after repeated firings....NADA.

But it was enough to make me decide to stay away from nickeled brass.
  

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nobearsyet
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #12 - Dec 25th, 2010 at 3:56pm
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I do shoot a lot of 45 Colt and 357/38 nickel plated ammo but that's all for blackpowder cowboy action stuff that sits in my gun belt for a year at a time. Doesn't corrode as badly I've found.
  
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #13 - Dec 25th, 2010 at 4:30pm
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Out of the 200 nickel plated 32/40 cases fired at Butte a couple weeks ago, only two separated completely. One burned through partially at the center. It's Duke nickel  plated brass. Biggi was using that brass. I noticed she wasnt inserting the blow tube all the way in the chamber. This making the chamber wet. She corrected the problem and the case separations stopped. 

My opinion is that new manufactured cases whether nickel plated or not are made cheaper and thinner from lower quality materials than in the past. Like most things these days. A few years ago I purchased 100 new 308W Federal match cases. My usual mild load of AA 2520 swelled all the primer pockets so that they wouldnt hold a primer. That is a quality issue. If they could make high power cartridge cases from toilet paper they would do it. They make a few bucks to keep up with rampant inflation and we suffer the consequences.   

                        Joe.  Smiley
  

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Paul_F.
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Re: Annealing Nickel cases?
Reply #14 - Dec 25th, 2010 at 6:21pm
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Westerner;

I dunno nothing about nickeled brass.. but Federal brass (in .308 and .223) has had a reputation for decades as being soft.  In Highpower, when I started with the M1A (early 90's) I was told not to bother with Federal .308 brass, as I'd only get 1-2 reloads out of it before the pockets were swelled and useless.   

Not being overly bright, I picked up a batch of once fired Federal brass cheap, and sure enough, I found that I got ONE reload out of it.

Paul F.
  
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