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MikePowers
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Help in identifying custom Low Wall (?)
Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:05pm
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I have inherited several firearms from my Dad who was a serious shooter and collector from 1920 to his passing in the 1980's. My siblings and I each received some after my Mom loaded them all into her car and drove them to the East coast from their home in Arizona. The unmodded ones I can ID but this one has three separate gunshop employees stumped (all younger than me). 
I think it is started as a Model 1885 low wall Winchester and I would like your opinion on it. It has no visible serial number, only 22 Long Rifle and my dad's SSn stamped on the left side of the barrel. The barrel is 22 5/8" long, round, tapered to .645 at the muzzle. The action's tangs appear to be shortened (?), holes filled and modified for a stock thru bolt.
The scope is marked "M29S Special Scope, W R Weaver Co., El Paso, Texas".
I hope my pictures upload and thanks in advance for any help you can offer.


  
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waterman
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Re: Help in identifying custom Low Wall (?)
Reply #1 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 3:25pm
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Welcome to this single shot madness, Mike.  Here is my guess about your custom low wall:

I think you are looking at a Low Wall that was made into a gallery or 4-position rifle and that at some point was re-barreled with a sporter-weight barrel.  The cut in the right side of the action is very similar to cuts made to facilitate loading in some pre-WW1 gallery rifles.  I am pretty sure those were aftermarket gunsmith alterations, not Winchester factory alterations.  I have seen a photo of a similar alteration attributed to Harry Pope, but my guess is that this is not a HP alteration.

The shortened tangs & through-bolt in the buttstock could be of that or a slightly later vintage.  The original serial number was lost when the lower tang was altered. 

I have an M-2 Springfield with a "Long Rifle Cartridge Only" stamp on the barrel that looks very much like yours.  I think your rifle was rebarreled with a barrel intended for one of the 1922 Springfield series of rifles.  The barrel was turned to sporter dimensions and shortened a bit before installation.  Please don't think that was a tacky installation of a "war surplus" barrel.  The 1922 or M2 Springfield barrels were of very high quality.

Is the lever made of aluminum?  I have a Ballard with an aluminum lever that dates from the 1940s.

I can't tell you anything about the scope, but the forward mount is a Stith.  IIRC, Stith was in business from the 30s into the 1950s.

Based on the milled out hammer, I think it is a coil spring action, post-1908.  There are some screw holes on the starboard side, but is the action a 3rd Model Winder?  If so, why the right side access cut?  3rd Model Winders were already cut away for easy loading.  Let's hear from someone else,

Waterman
« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2010 at 3:35pm by waterman »  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Help in identifying custom Low Wall (?)
Reply #2 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 4:27pm
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I agree with Waterman that the barrel is from an M1922 Springfield.  The general style of the rifle is that of the conversions to target or sporter/varmint rifles that were made in the '20's and '30's.

The action is a Winder Musket action, cut away for even easier loading of the .22LR cartridge.  The small Weaver 29-S scope was made between 1930 and the beginning of WWII.  Weaver made the first good affordable scopes in this country.  The mounts may be custom made--Stith mounts looked like them (especially the front mount) but were generally made to adapt to the sight slots and existing receiver holes of the rifles they were fitted to.  The holes in the receiver for the Winder peep sight were igonred and two new holes were drilled and tapped in the top of the receiver for the rear scope mount.  This one-mount-on-receiver, one-on-barrel was also very characteristic of between-the-wars work.

Somebody took a fair amount of trouble lightening the hammer, checkering the trigger and redoing the lever to that neat ball-and-curve to fit the pistol grip.  Clyde Baker has a picture of such a conversion in his gunsmithing book.  The lever and hammer look to be nickel plated without polishing, except where the shooter's hand has grasped the ball to open the action.  The stock is a pretty nicely done example of the modernized type, and good wood, too.  Is there anything marked on the inner surfaces of the wood or under the buttplate?

Short of something definitive like a maker's mark, it is a pretty good example of what a lot of gunsmiths of the period were doing during the single-shot rebuilding craze.  You might check with Michael Petrov.  He posts here rarely and also has a site of his own, doublegunbbs at doublegun or something like that.  He might have a better handle on whose hand turned your rifle out.

How does it shoot?
  
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MikePowers
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Re: Help in identifying custom Low Wall (?)
Reply #3 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 7:42pm
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"Is the lever made of aluminum?" No it's magnetic, silver colored, not high polish.

There are what looks like coil springs on either side of the trigger if you look at the trigger assembly from the bottom.

No markings under either the buttplate or the forearm. One thing I neglected to mention (because I didn't see them) are the stampings on the top of the barrel at the muzzle.

                         either "S  A  or  9  A"
                           then           )
                                           o
                                      
                                        6-37

Thanks for all your help.
  
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MikePowers
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Re: Help in identifying custom Low Wall (?)
Reply #4 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 8:00pm
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Now I've gotta take off the buttplate again. Should I get out the heat and lemon juice and check for invisible ink?

1937 to 1940 my dad was getting out of Tulsa University and looking for work on his way to Findlay, OH where he met my Mom.
  
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azzhandler
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Re: Help in identifying custom Low Wall (?)
Reply #5 - Oct 31st, 2010 at 11:31am
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Im from Findlay  Tongue
  
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rapud
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Re: Help in identifying custom Low Wall (?)
Reply #6 - Nov 1st, 2010 at 10:01pm
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I have a high wall that has the same action lever.  I was told by a collector that is is a Sedgley design.  Sedgley was a prominent gunsmith in the Philadelphia area in the 20's.  They made a lot of "wall" custom varminters and the lever was one of their trademarks. Smiley
  
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boats
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Re: Help in identifying custom Low Wall (?)
Reply #7 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 8:00am
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Been my experience young gun shop employees don't know anything except black rifles and plastic pistols.

S-A 6-37 confirms it's a Springfield Arsenal 1922 M II barrel.  Memory only it would have been a M II not a M2 this based on the date.  Not sure they were ever sold individually, certainly not in 1937. Post WW II Arsenal had a sell off of old stock and some .22 barrels could have been put out through DCM.  Will have a look in my books see if I can find a reference. 

If so when the barrel was sold would help date the conversion. Sedgley did a lot of conversions with Arsenal components. Old American Rifleman issues would have some of his Ad's however that looks to be one off not something they would have advertised

Like Waterman says they were among the best rim fire barrels.

Boats
« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2010 at 8:12am by boats »  
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MikePowers
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Re: Help in identifying custom Low Wall (?)
Reply #8 - Nov 7th, 2010 at 5:24pm
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This is the description from my father's inventory papers (which I did not have at the start of this thread):
"Winchester lever action single shot rifle .22 LR caliber. Low side wall with right wall lowered for easy loading. Pistol grip stock w/ fancy walnut w/ cheek piece. Lever inlet into pistol grip. Lever chrome plated. Weaver 330B scope 2 1/2 x mounted in custom non-adjustable mounts. Barrel is .22 cal from Springfield Sporter .22 cal target rifle."

He was an NRA Life member, joined in the '30s, worked for Remington both in Findlay, OH and Ilion, NY. I am posting pics of another Winchester from his collection that my younger brother has in a new thread .

Thanks to all for the help.
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: Help in identifying custom Low Wall (?)
Reply #9 - Dec 6th, 2010 at 5:29pm
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That looks like a typical 30s/40s prone/position target rifle, with very nice workmanship, definitely not built by a basement tinkerer.  A couple of questions; did you take the forearm off and look for markings on the underside of the barrel, also is the action speed-locked? I have a small collection of 30s/40s Ballard .22 target fifles as well as a very interesting/heavily modified Hepburn.  Included are Peterson, Eric and CC Johnson, a Remington Custom Shop special order #2 Roller, as well as several that are unmarked. During the 30s-50s there were a lot of very good gunsmiths making extremely accurate (as well as interesting) rifles. Have you shot the rifle? You might be pleasantly surprised at how well the gun shoots.
  
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