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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ??? (Read 18567 times)
Joel Black
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #15 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 11:22am
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The scope is a Stevens 455. Its not as long as the barrel, but since there is no provision for a front sight, the scope is original to the rifle. I have to confess its been 30 years since I've shot most of my Stevens, although I do remember all of them shot very well. That 56 is in .25RF. I also have one in 22LR and another in 25/20SS. You may be interested to know that despite it not being mentioned in the Stevens catalogs, 56s were available with many custom features. My .22 has a cheek piece and DSTs. Jim Goergen has one with DSTs and a Steven-Pope barrel!
  
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BP
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #16 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 4:24pm
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Joel,

Thanks for the additional info, and for posting a pic of your 56. It's always good to learn more about the variations that show up within the different model number designations. 

It's easy to forget that despite what the old catalogs say, back then if you had the coin to spend, you really could get it made your way!

Regards,
BP

  

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Joel Black
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #17 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 4:51pm
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You're welcome. Since you are interested in Ladies rifles these are some that I own.
This first is the 56 in 22LR:
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This is the 56 in 25/20SS:
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This is a very early 21. Note how the whole barrel is exposed:
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This next one is an early 55:
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This is a latter 55 which is defined by the radius in the corner of the action:
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It has a rare Pope windage sight:
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This last one is probably the rarest in that it is a DLX Favorite. I only know of one other:
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All of them except the Favorite have Swiss buttplates. It has a curved rubber one marked "Favorite" in a ribbon.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #18 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 5:14pm
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Joel, 

     That "rare Pope windage sight" isn't.  Although often mistaken for the relatively rare Pope sight (readily identifiable by it's key type adjustments) this is very the desirable Lyman windage adjustable sight, designated #52 IIRC.  It was also available as a separate replacement stem to use in your existing #1 or #2 tang sight and carried (again, IIRC) the designation #47(?)  You can find both mentioned in the Lyman Centenial Journal as well as Nick Stroebel's books.  Cool 

     I've got one like it on a high-wall in .45-70 for casual efforts at BPCS and another on a Ballard Pacific.  I'd love a couple more for my low-wall offhand rimfire and my high-wall schuetzen rifles!   Cheesy

froggie
  
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Joel Black
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #19 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 5:43pm
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As usual I continue to rely on my once photograpic memory...it now is often wrong.
  
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BP
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #20 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 6:08pm
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Froggie,

You've raised a question for me on the Lyman sight. Did the #47 stem become available before Lyman made the transition to the 1A/2A base using the side lever lock , or only after the transition? 

Joel,

Some of us would invest a lot of time to see the rare examples of the fine Stevens you've posted pictures of. Many thanks for doing so! 

Regards,
BP
« Last Edit: Aug 7th, 2010 at 6:16pm by BP »  

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sureshot
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #21 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 6:21pm
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Very nice rifles!
What frame were the #55 Lady Models made on?

Steve
  
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rustyrelx
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #22 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 6:29pm
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I sold a 56 loop lever pg action to a guy in Spokane a number of years ago and he had a .22rf Pope barrel he was going to put on it. I had seen his work and knew that it would turn out supurb. Now I'm gonna have to have a friend look up his Stevens an I know he has several 55's and 21's and 044 1/2's. Might be a delux favorite instead. I think they were all marked though.   Don   rustyrelx
  
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Joel Black
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #23 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 7:04pm
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The 21 and 55s were both made on Favorite frames. The 56 was the only one made on a different frame. The wording of your question also points out an interesting point which was that Stevens could not settle on a name. In various catalog incarnations they used both "Lady" model and "Ladies" model
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #24 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 11:36pm
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I hate discussions like this. After seeing all thes fine rifles I am going to have to add one to my want list and up my spending limit!
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #25 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 8:01am
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BP wrote on Aug 7th, 2010 at 6:08pm:
Froggie,

You've raised a question for me on the Lyman sight. Did the #47 stem become available before Lyman made the transition to the 1A/2A base using the side lever lock , or only after the transition? 

Regards,
BP


BP,

     Like Joel, my photographic memory is getting a little blurry.  "Momma don't take my Kodachrome..." etc.  However, to the best of my limited memory, the replacement stems (indeed the whole sight assemblies) became available fairly late, so would be only on the a-type sights unless somebody just put one of the windage stems on an earlier base.  You could check the Lyman Journal and/or the Stroebel books for a more definitive answer.

Froggie

PS  The giveaways on Joel's were the Lyman knurled barrel on the sight as well as the adjusting knob for windage.  Both are quite different on the Pope sight.  GF
  
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Joel Black
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #26 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 9:26am
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In my answer about Favorite frames, I should have mentioned that some, but not all had screw in barrels. When I first started to collect them I wondered why Stevens offered all the things that came on a Ladies model as extras for Favorites. It came out to slightly more than a Ladies model. When I mentioned this to my always logical wife, she had a simple answer. When a rich father wanted to buy his son a fine single shot, he woulsn't buy a ladies model.
« Last Edit: Aug 9th, 2010 at 4:25pm by Joel Black »  
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BP
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #27 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 2:52pm
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Quote:
PS  The giveaways on Joel's were the Lyman knurled barrel on the sight as well as the adjusting knob for windage.  Both are quite different on the Pope sight.  GF


Green One,
Always interesting how we each key in on different features to rapidly identify items. On Lyman tang sights, my eyes always look first at the construction of joint mechanism. 
I've never seen a 47 stem shown in the sales literature with the earlier #1/#2 bases, but only with the 1A/2A series.
There is a Pope pictured on the front cover of Stroebels "Old Gunsights" book, positioned in front of the Win Mid-Range boxed set.

Joel,
I think the general pattern was that the 55's had threaded barrel shanks, while the 21's were smooth slip-in shanks, though I seem to recall that JJ Grant noted there were 1 or 2 exceptions to this. 
And I believe your wife gave you an astute answer.  Wink

Regards,
BP
  

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Joel Black
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #28 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 4:24pm
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Both my early 21 and 55 have screw in barrels. The latter 55 does not. Jim Grant eventually must have realized there is little rhyme or reason to Stevens single shots. Each of his succeeding books would correct earlier ones.
It is interesting that this 2 barrel Jersey City Pope 47 (44 action w/lug on hammer and SST) formerly owned by John Amber was fitted with a Stevens #104 rather than a Pope rear sight.
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« Last Edit: Aug 9th, 2010 at 4:57pm by Joel Black »  
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BP
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Re: Stevens English Model 044 1/2 ???
Reply #29 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 5:46pm
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Joel,

You're right. With Stevens, it seems that there are exceptions to the exceptions!  Grin

Really nice 47!! 
As far as the 104 sight goes, I consider it to be more user friendly to make adjustments (when they are tight of course). 
The Pope is a nice sight, but if you loose the adjusting pin (the ones I've seen looked like a straight eye fishhook that had the bend and barb snipped off), you can be kinda SOL unless you remembered to bring a spare, or have a small dia pin punch in the kit.  Smiley



  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
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