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merhere
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preserving older guns - best practices
Jul 7th, 2010 at 11:52am
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Greetings all; I have a 1915 Stevens that is in great condition. there is no rust or pitting on the barrel, but there is a bit of oxidation on the sight. It's minimal. I am hesitant to do anything about it, other than keep it clean. It's my understanding that changing the original condition reduces the value. What are best practices for maintaining collectible rifles? thanks.
  
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westerner
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #1 - Jul 7th, 2010 at 2:14pm
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Oxidation?  Are you talking RUST!??  Cheesy

The best way to preserve a rifle is to use it. Clean it once in a while and keep oil on it. 

Thats my way and my opinion. 

        Joe.
  

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MAD MIKE
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #2 - Jul 7th, 2010 at 2:14pm
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merhere,  Oxidation on the sight is not an original condition. I treat my guns like they've been in constant use, since day of manufacture. If they're dirty, I clean them, if they're rusty I remove the rust, if I scratch the stock, I try to touch it up. There's an old saying "when you're selling a gun it's patina, but when you're buying a gun, it's rust" That's my story & I'm sticking to it!!!      ...MIKE... Angry Angry Angry
  
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #3 - Jul 7th, 2010 at 2:18pm
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MAD MIKE wrote on Jul 7th, 2010 at 2:14pm:
merhere,  Oxidation on the sight is not an original condition. I treat my guns like they've been in constant use, since day of manufacture. If they're dirty, I clean them, if they're rusty I remove the rust, if I scratch the stock, I try to touch it up. There's an old saying "when you're selling a gun it's patina, but when you're buying a gun, it's rust" That's my story & I'm sticking to it!!!      ...MIKE... Angry Angry Angry


Yeah! I agree with Mike.
     
                    Joe.  Wink
  

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BP
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #4 - Jul 7th, 2010 at 11:13pm
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Something about bluing, which in the early days used to be called "browning" due to the brownish tint, is that the bluing finish is really a very dark hard rust that is tough and durable. 

After the passage of time and neglect, the bluing breaks down toward the softer red rust, forming what we call patina, provided we are on the selling side of the table of course.  Grin
  

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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #5 - Jul 7th, 2010 at 11:21pm
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Merhere, I would use some gun oil and a bit of 0000 steel wool (sparingly) on the rusting sight.  Go slow and you can preserve most all of the original finish.

Regards, Joe
  
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #6 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 7:52am
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I agree with what most have already told you with one small exception. Do not use steel wool on the rust, use bronze wool. Bronze wool can be purchased from Brownells. The bronze wool will get out the rust without polishing off the bluing. Use it with something like Kroil and go carefully.

40 Rod
  
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Dave
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #7 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 8:12am
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Bronze wool can also be purchased from marine supply stores like West Marine.  Another "rust" removal tip is to use an old brass case as a scraper with oil.  It will remove rust but not the steel or bluing.  Go lightly with oil using the thin edge of the neck.

Dave
  
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merhere
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #8 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 12:07pm
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Thanks for the tips. I will try the bronze wool first.
  
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MAD MIKE
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #9 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 1:17pm
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   Try Hoppes #9 bore solvent with the steel/bronze wool. When I'm finished cleaning,touching up ,etc. I give the gun a good coat of car wax.            good luck   ...MIKE...
  
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #10 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 1:50pm
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With the other guys, no rust or dirt on my guns. That Patina BS is mostly used by dealers or traders working on your selling price. If they want to own "attic condion" fine but no room in my rack for it.

I don't sand or polish out the old finish though just get everything nice and clean.  To preserve light application of good oil on the metal, very light wiped on with a rag,  If the wood is dry some thin oil rubbed in is good, lately I use Watco brand tung oil instead of linseed.  Once clean I give whole gun a rub with paste wax, plain old floor wax. Old leather nothing better than Pecard dressing.

Boats
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #11 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 5:16pm
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     YEAH !   I agree with 40-Rod, .   .   .   , who agrees with Joe, .   .   .   ., who agrees with Mike.

     Creedmoormatch     Smiley
  
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #12 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 7:31pm
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I nagree with 40_Rod,I use bronze in these cases of minor rust along with Kroil with exceptional results and less harm to barrel finish--Fritz
  
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #13 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 9:30pm
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Good advice here. Go slow on rust removal. Trick is to remove rust but not whatever finish is left. There is also a stainless steel scruber made for use on guns that works well with Kroll or Break free or your favorite oil. Bought mine at gun show. Have been told that you can buy a cheap stainles scruber from Walmart that works the same. My experience with a cheapie was not good. I like TruOil and 0000 steel wool to clean up my stocks. Go slow and wipe off the excess and dirt with a clean rag or paper towel. Dirty, rusty guns do not do it for me.
  
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merhere
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #14 - Jul 9th, 2010 at 8:37am
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This is all very helpful. The spot I am referring to is at the top of the front sight cylinder. It was probably scraped along the way.  I called it oxidation instead of all out rust because it is just a color shift from barrel blu to brown. There isn't any "texture" or pitting like an aggressive rust spot.
  
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #15 - Jul 9th, 2010 at 1:42pm
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merhere,

Something to keep in mind, as the color change transitions from blue to brown, the finish is in the process of degrading. At first it begins microscopically and then advances. And it proceeds in all directions. If you ever have to strip the old finish off a receiver, barrel or other parts, you might be surprised at the amount of pitting that has developed underneath that damned patina. 

With wood touch-up, I prefer wet-or-dry automotive paper used in  body-shops, and 600 grit is the coarsest grit I will use. I cut the sheet into smaller handier size strips, and I never use it dry. I let the paper soak in a small bowl of water for a few minutes first to get it saturated, and then proceed using light pressure, and dip the paper back in the bowl every few strokes to clear the finish build-up from the abrasive and keep the paper moist. The thing I don't like about using steel or bronze wool is that sometimes small slivers of the wool will break off and embed into the pores of the wood. I don't have to worry about that with the wet-or-dry paper.

« Last Edit: Jul 9th, 2010 at 1:50pm by BP »  

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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #16 - Jul 9th, 2010 at 6:06pm
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If the wood is real dirty, take it off the gun, make a "mild" solution of TSP in some hot water & scrub it with a piece of terry cloth towel, rince with clear water & let dry for 24 hours,then put some thinned Tru-Oil on. If it's really crudded up & black around the inletting, make a strong batch & scrub or soak it in that, then finish it however you like.( I like Tru-Oil ) If you soak it, use a little heat to dry it & as the oil leeches out of the inletting wipe it off with paper towels.            ...MIKE...
  
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #17 - Jul 9th, 2010 at 10:28pm
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Yeah, steer clear of steel wool or any sort of steel brush.  I've got what would be a real nice Stevens 44 1/2, except somebody tried to scrub a few tiny spots of rust off one side, and took a lot of the color with it. 

Bronze will may not chew up the surrounding surfaces as badly, but no matter what, you need to chemically KILL the rust with something.  A tiny drop of dilute phosphoric acid would work, in principle, but I haven't tried it yet in that context.  I sure have done a lot of rusty motorcycle parts with it, though.  Phosphoric acid can be bought from mason's suppliers.  It's used to get concrete stains off of brick.  You might even find some at Lowes or Home Despot.   After the rust is chemically killed, just oiling or waxing the surface will keep the rust at bay.  
  

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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #18 - Jul 9th, 2010 at 10:35pm
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Oh, and when wet-sanding, put a bit of dishwashing liquid in the water.  That will prevent the paper from loading-up.   

I've often run old, oily stocks thru the dishwasher to get the crud out.  Being single, I don't have to explain this to a wife, however.  Use the hottest water setting the machine will provide.  Does an amazing job, but do plan to re-do the entire finish.  There won't be much trace of the old one if it was an oil finish to begin with.
  

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Dave
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #19 - Jul 10th, 2010 at 7:05am
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I have never used phosphoric acid on a firearm but I have thought about it.  I have used a product called ospho that is sold by marine suppliers like West Marine.  I have never used it on a firearm but I have thought about it.  When used on rust it chnges the chemical make up of it "killing the rust".  The rusted area turns a dark grayish black. I don't know what it would do to surrounding bluing but it would be a good experment.

Dave
  
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418Steve
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #20 - Jul 11th, 2010 at 9:03am
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I can't believe this post--everyone agrees!
Agree with most everything here too---I have a saying that if you get 100 shooters together, you'll get 101 ways to clean a gun!
My 2 cents;
Yep--best way to preserve a gun is to shoot it
Keep it clean and lightly oil it afterwards
To remove rust I'd been using 0000 steel wool (going as lightly as possible) and WD-40 (for external cleaning only--I don't use it on the internals or for regular lubrication or protection) Seems to work better than Hoppes for rust removal with the wool) I switched to bronze wool a few years ago as others say (also from West Marine) just because.
I also go over the bluing with Simi-Chrome by Happich--gets rust out of the blue you can't see--you can google it or most good motorcycle shops carry it as a chrome cleaner.  Using it for decades and no harm yet.
Final treatment is either a light coat of Rem Oil or Eezox or Flitz polish depending on how long I'll store it.  Have also used Boston furniture wax too.  Still playing around here, after all these decades. 


Slumlords comments --he's talking about Big Frontier 45 Metal Cleaner--web site is  " (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) stainless steel wool (which is softer than regular steel wool  I use it mostly for deleading a dark bore, but have used it on the externals of a gun that couldn't be hurt much more in some areas, and it did no harm.  The Wal-Mart equivalent is a "Choreboy" scouring pad in the housewares dept.  Never used it, but some members of my pistol club do and say it's OK

Wood--my go to for cleaning has been just plain alcohol and 0000 steel wool. Works great and dries very quickly (as in minutes) so no need for extensive drying.

IF the stock is really stained or oil-soaked, then I go to another marine product--Teak wood cleaner, also from West Marine, and then use alcohol again.  Teak cleaners usually have a little oxalic acid in them and the alcohol gets the last of it ou
  
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Re: preserving older guns - best practices
Reply #21 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 2:40am
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Old guns are meant to be shot!

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Mike Otterberg and Meunier at Hamilton Montana.

                    Joe.  Smiley
  

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