Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Normal Topic Truth stranger than fiction (Read 6361 times)
tim_s
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 830
Location: 13066
Joined: Oct 11th, 2006
Truth stranger than fiction
Jun 29th, 2010 at 9:01am
Print Post  
This past Saturday we had a nice treat @ the IR50/50 match. A gentleman from Pa. comes up with his bud to shoot with us packing a Ballard Pope .22 complete with Lyman ST. Now this match has a few of the best purpose built BR guns and 4 hall of fame shooters present and this rig held it's own in tricky conditions while shooting less than top shelf match ammo, posting one card ,I believe a 249 15x, pretty solid performance.
Should he show up again I'll try to post a couple pics.
  

“ I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you”
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7737
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Truth stranger than fiction
Reply #1 - Jun 29th, 2010 at 12:40pm
Print Post  
If he used the best ammo,  Something like Eley Tenex bet he could do just as well as any of the modern rifles.

Lots of this modern bench rest rimfire lore is snake oil.  It boils down to the ammo barrel and shooter. None of which is new.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
418Steve
Ex Member


Re: Truth stranger than fiction
Reply #2 - Jul 11th, 2010 at 12:31pm
Print Post  
I agree on the barrel and ammo and how good old guns can be; here's my 2 cents, even if they are not single shots---

Even today the gun mags seem to think 1" at 100 yds (1 MOA) is the Holy Grail of centerfire off the shelf bolt guns costing up to $2000 or so.  Usually with a $500 scope on it too.  Admittedly usually 5 groups of 5 shots or so but usually the writer tries to cook up some handloads for better accuracy too.

So, my first Savage 99 lever action--1953 vintage I bought 2 years ago, I took to the range the first time.  It was a 99EG, with an older Simmons 3X9X32mm scope.  First box of ammo was Rem. factory, and groups were 1 1/4" after sighting in-not bad I thought considering my skills and a lever gun.  Second box of ammo was Federal Premium 150 gr.  Voila!  .7" groups all that day and other days!.
Sold the gun a year later in a moment of weakness even though I thought I had one remarkably lucky and accurate gun.
Got the Savage  99 bug again, and bought another one 3 months ago--same exact model gun also in 300 Savage except made in 1954 (still over 55 years old)
This time, shooting with an old Japan made Tasco 2.75X40mm Turkey / brush gun scope on it but same ammo.
Guess what?  .7" groups again! Here's a pic of the 1953 gun and target--only had a SB target 
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
These guns were stock too--only thing I ever did to either of them was REALLY get all the old copper fouling out of the barrels with WipeOut and then about 3 sessions with JB Bore Paste.
Someday I'll wring out my old Stevens 418 22LR for a day to see what it will do at 50 yds with different ammo's too. Right now I am at 1 1/4"  and an occasional 1" at 50 yds with it, using CCI SV and Wolf MT ammo and the stock iron sights (Lyman 17A front with a lollipop insert and Lyman 48L or Lyman 144 rear sights)
Will keep you guys posted when
« Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2010 at 12:50pm by »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
waterman
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3006
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Joined: Jun 9th, 2004
Re: Truth stranger than fiction
Reply #3 - Jul 11th, 2010 at 6:14pm
Print Post  
I have been playing with 3 stock Winder Muskets in 22 Short for the last 3+ years.  I keep track of groups by mean radius, not max group size.  I use CCI Target Shorts as the standard of comparison.  Off the bench, with issue sights (post front & Lyman 53 rear), mean radii are about 0.8" to 0.6".  Switching the sights to a Lyman 17A front (with Lee Shaver inserts) and a Lee Shaver Mid-Range tang sight drops the mean radii to about 0.55" to 0.50", but almost never lower.  I can't play the 50/50 game, but I am continually amazed by the old rimfires.

waterman
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Remington40x
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 166
Location: Bucks County, PA
Joined: Oct 18th, 2007
Re: Truth stranger than fiction
Reply #4 - Jul 11th, 2010 at 6:27pm
Print Post  
I have a Stevens Model 416, a bolt action descendant of the Savage Model 19, that was a military training rifle.  Not a single shot, just a factory rifle produced in bulk to train GIs to shoot during the WWII era.  I spent a ton of money and time wringing it out for accuracy.  The ammo it likes best will average 0.51 inches for ten 5-shot groups at 50 yards.  I bought a Remington40x .22 thinking I'd do better.  I did, sort of, cutting a whole 0.14 inches off the average.   

Stevens really built accurate .22s even when it was churning them out.   

Rem
  
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
418Steve
Ex Member


Re: Truth stranger than fiction
Reply #5 - Jul 11th, 2010 at 9:33pm
Print Post  
Rem40X, 
Mind if I ask what ammo your 416 likes best?  
Got me going now so guess I'll have to bring my old 418 to the range and punch some paper sooner rather than later.
Maybe you can save me some time and aggravation!
Mostly I use Wolf MT or SK Jagd Std Plus, and occasional Wolf ME because it shoots well in some other guns I have too.
Haven't shot Eley, RWS or other high end ammo in a while

Let us know.

Thanks,
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7737
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Truth stranger than fiction
Reply #6 - Jul 12th, 2010 at 7:20am
Print Post  
That  Stevens 416 brings back memories,  My dad traded a Colt Detective Special for one so I could use it smallbore position 50 years ago. It was a fine shooter and at times won matches against high dollar new rifles, Winchester 52's etc.

After we switched out the rear sight for a Lyman 48 that is. Issue rear sight had a lot of slop. I thought it was the gun until we put the Lyman on it.

Boats

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sureshot
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 338
Location: Snohomish
Joined: May 27th, 2007
Re: Truth stranger than fiction
Reply #7 - Jul 12th, 2010 at 9:49am
Print Post  
I have noticed that some Stevens 416's have an "X" marked on the barrel. Are these more accurate or was it just a marketing thing?

Steve
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Remington40x
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 166
Location: Bucks County, PA
Joined: Oct 18th, 2007
Re: Truth stranger than fiction
Reply #8 - Jul 12th, 2010 at 2:17pm
Print Post  
418 Steve:   

The ammo it liked best was the Remington Match Ultra Plus (Eley), which was also either the most expensive or the second most expensive ammo I tested.  (Of course, it couldn't love Walmart bulk pack stuff, that would have been too easy.)

Smallest individual group was with Fiocchi Match (M320), at 0.30 inches.

I only tested a few brands when shooting 10-shot groups.  Best individual group (0.50 inches) and best average for five 10-shot groups (0.71 inches) was Dynamit Nobel RWS 50.  All of the groups were shot at 50 yards from a bench using a Redfield 3200 24x and measured extreme spread of the lead smear on the paper less .22 inches for group size.

Steve:

I have no idea what the X might be for.  Mine has one and the handful of these I've seen over the years all did, too.  I just assumed it was a standard marking.

Rem
  
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
418Steve
Ex Member


Re: Truth stranger than fiction
Reply #9 - Jul 12th, 2010 at 5:08pm
Print Post  
Rem 40X,
Thanks--I'd been planning to pick up a few boxes of high end ammo, I'll give some if it a shot.  I can get Eley and RWS pretty easily at two local shops---Fiocchi high end, not so much. 
"Ah feel your pain" as Slick Willie used to say on the cheaper ammo!

Steve--I believe, but not sure, that the 10X is a proof mark /testers inspection mark.  May not be an accuracy test proof, just an inspectors mark though (rather than a production code)

Any other marks on the barrel, such as a simple number of 1 through 5?  That number, if there is one, would be the number of the barrel contour--1 is thinnest and sporter weight, 5 being the thickest, heaviest weight contour.

If I can figure out where I saw mention of it, I'll let you know.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint