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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 40/63 Ballard loads (Read 30668 times)
frnkeore
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40/63 Ballard loads
Jun 18th, 2010 at 5:49pm
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I'm going to start shooting my 40/63 Ballard Pacific and need loading info. It has a .410 groove and I've made cases out of 7x57R cases. I will shoot it B/S with a 400gr bullet, a tapered Stover design. I've fire formed the cases with 10.1 gr of Unique. It will be one of the loads i try as, it was a tack driver in my 45/70. I'm not looking for velocity and don't want to go over 1200 fps. 

I haven't been shooting single shoots in 15 years now. Another question is what's the current smokeless priming powder that most people are using for black powder now? I used 4759 back then.
  

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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #1 - Jun 18th, 2010 at 7:24pm
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frnkeore, 4759 still works as well as it did then. It is all I use in my treasured Single Shot rifles. In full smokeless loads or as a priming charge for Black. I have not found a need to consider changing as these old guns still shoot better than I can hold. Regards, FITZ Smiley
  

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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #2 - Jun 18th, 2010 at 8:35pm
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You might be able to get away with shooting a 400 grain bullet in your Ballard, but I think some of the earlier ones were made with 20 inch twist. I never had trouble shooting a 400 grain bullet out of an 18 twist .40-70 Hepburn but for some reason I always shot a 300 or 330 grainer out of my .40-63 Ballards. Maybe it had to do with recoil. Smiley
  
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xtimberman
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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2010 at 1:16pm
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I've had several .40-63 Ballards and they all preferred bullets in the 320-350gr range - but all were rifled 1 in 20". I tried some down to 255gr. and up to ~380gr. One bullet that worked very well in all three was 345gr. Ideal #406150 which drops right at .410" in 1:30 alloy. Actually, I've never found an oversize .40-63 that didn't like that bullet! I think it's supposed to be for a Winchester .40-72...?

Before RMC and Buffalo Arms showed up, I tried forming brass from all sorts of strange European brass - including 7x57R, which has a rim that is much too thin for any Ballard .40-63 I've ever encountered. JMO, but you'll need to find some way to bump up that rim thickness to keep the headspace within reason. One of my .40-63 shootin' buddies sprung the breechblock on his #4 while shooting straight black and safe duplex loads - and several of us, including him, blame the thin rims on the formed brass he was using.  Cry

I read where RL-7 can be used in tiny amounts as the smokeless component of a duplex load. I've never tried it in a Ballard, but did try some in my .40-65 Hepburn at ~3-4% by volume with BP. It worked well enough but seemed daring and new-fangled to me so I went back to my good ol' SR-4759. I've never seen pressure data with RL-7/BP, but I have with enough duplex loads using 4759 to have a feel for what's happening.
 
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« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2010 at 5:02pm by xtimberman »  
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frnkeore
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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #4 - Jun 19th, 2010 at 5:17pm
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Thank you all for the information. I bought this gun 5 years ago while I wasn't shooting. It was such a beautiful gun, I couldn't pass it up.

40 cal is new to me, especially the 40/63. I have two 25/20 ss, two 30's (32/35 i did all the barrel and chambering work) three 32/40's and two 45/70's. Mine is also a 20 twist and the greenhill formula says that it will stablize a 1.25 bullet thats why I picked that weight. I'm a machinist and I can shorten the the mold lenght (i have to bore the base band to .412 from .410 anyway) It's a straight sided bullte so, I made a tapering die to that brings it from .404 to .412. Don't know how that will work but, I'll find out. 

Tell me more about RMC, I don't reconize that company. Do, the have fordged brass or is it machined?

What I'm looking for is know accurate loading's for 40/63 so, that I have a good base line to start with. My 10gr Unique load that I used for fire forming was based on my low velocity work I did on my 45/70 so, I just assumed it would be a safe low pressure load in this gun and I will try it becauce it seems to be accurate in 45/70, 45 Colt and 44 Mag. 

Thank you very much for the head space warning. I hadn't considered that.

Frank
  

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xtimberman
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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2010 at 5:57pm
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RMC - Rocky Mountain Cartridge - Dave Casey turned my .40-63 brass from dimensions I gave him from a cerrosafe chamber casting. They came to me annealed and since I've never run them through sizing dies, I've not yet had one split or fail otherwise.

A lot of formed brass fits in a .40-63 chamber OK, but most of it is loose enough at the base to bypass the Ballard extractor. I already mentioned that most of it has a rim that is too thin -- well, most of it is really not wide enough at the base and rim either. This may seem inconsequential, but a chambered case behind an extended extractor will jam up the works until you pry or tap it out with a rod. All my case problems with this Ballard 1 1/2 disappeared when I received my perfectly-fitting RMC brass.  Smiley

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The .40s are the largest bores that I shoot - got rid of everything larger when heavy recoil ceased to be fun for me!

BTW, I like .32-35, too! Whataya do for brass for that one?

May just be me, but I'm sort of scared of Unique loads for the .40-63 in the Ballard action......

xtm
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2010 at 6:06pm by xtimberman »  
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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2010 at 6:31pm
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     I use .405 Win. cases cut to length. This brass is undersize at the base but the rim is correct. This is VERY heavy-walled brass and I've had no bulges at the base with the loads I've tried. If you shoot fixed, you'll have to turn or ream case necks. I've only breech seated and it works well.
     I think the 9.3X74R brass put out by Hornady is even closer to the correct base and rim dimensions. 
                                                           
  
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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2010 at 6:53pm
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I spent about 5 years with my 32/35 Stevens/Maynard. Starting from just thinking it was a good cartridge to, having my set of reamers made. I won a lot of ASSRA matches in Oregon with it and shot it in CBA matches too. It's been my most accurate BP cartridge (4 shoots in .5" and a flyer out to 1.95" at 200 yds and a evenly spaced 1.72" group that still stands as the club BP record).

Like i said, I'm a machinist. So, what i did was make a swaginging die with a inside dia of .395 with a radius at the start. I have a C-H type shell holder mounted on my arbor press, the ram has a .500 reamed hole in the ram and a set screw to hold tools. I put a 30/30 in the shell holder and swage the body down to the solid case head. I put the rim in a step collet, turn the head to .400. Run the case through the die I made with the reamer (you can shorten it to 1.88 at any time). Load it and fire form it. I even made cases on the 30 American for it with the Small primer pocket. I found little difference accept that you have to add about 1/2 gr of powder for the same velocity.

I can supply loading data if your interested. It was a 14 twist Douglas barrel 26" long on a Hoch action ( i bot the Hoch in '86 and had to do a lot to it before it could be even called a workable action). I shot a 187 gr Ron Long spitzer in it. I eroded the throat in it with the high pressure CBA loads and haven't shot it since '96 but, i haven't shot much of anything since then.
  

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xtimberman
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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #8 - Jun 19th, 2010 at 7:07pm
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While it was somewhat loose at the base, Hornady .405 brass fits my chamber OK --- but the brass at the neck was too thick and had to be inside reamed for fixed-case shooting. It was mighty thin when reamed to receive .410" bullets, and didn't survive many loadings. I don't know exactly why my neck-reamed brass was more fragile than my drawn or turned brass?

Marlin-Ballard was mighty loosey-goosey with their chamber dimensions for the .40-63. I've never run across two that were exactly alike. Fired brass must be segregated for each rifle chambered for that cartridge.

xtm
  
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frnkeore
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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #9 - Jun 19th, 2010 at 7:50pm
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My 7mm brass was to thick at the neck to make my breech seater, So what I did was to make a mandrel at .412 and press the brass onto it then, put a flat live center against the base to both hold it on the mandrel and act as a driving clutch. I took a rounded and polished piece of drill rod and spun about 1" of the neck down to the thickness I needed and refire formed.

That brings up a question. The 40/63 is a everlasting case and in my gun, the neck is to small for "normal" neck thickness. How in the heck would the guys back then have loaded a thick everlasting case with a fixed bullet. I've never heard of BSing mentioned with the everlasting case by the manufactorer only long lasting.
  

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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #10 - Jun 19th, 2010 at 8:13pm
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frnkeore, those cartridges of that time were paper patch bullets that were  "BORE" size. In other words they would fit right into the bore diameter. I own a number of original .40 and .45 caliber Sharps rifles. Also have been fortunate in finding original Sharps and Winchester paper patch bullets. They all without exception will fit nicely into the bore. I had a Ballard Mid-Range A-1 in 40-63 and some .40 Cal Sharps bullet fit nicely into the bore and also into the few original .40-63 Ballard everlasting shells I got with the Rifle. Remember these were soft alloy bullets and when the Black powder load went off it was a sledge hammer blow to the bullet. They bumped up! This kind of information has been lost or forgotten to today's shooters who feel or think they need to shoot groove size bullets. If you cast bullets more in the 30/1 or 40/1 lead tin alloy you will be suprised at how much smaller they can be than groove size and still shoot well. Especially if you are shooting Black powder either straight Black or Duplexed. Hope this helps. Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #11 - Jun 20th, 2010 at 1:37pm
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Fitz,
Thanks for the excellent lesson and reminder about the "Olde Ways" of 19th century shooting that always seem to be cast aside and quickly forgotten!  Smiley

I have been fortunate to come across the Ballard re-decapper and straight-line bullet seater for .40-63 - this is all I need for superior fixed BP handloads. I've never breech-seated anything larger than .38 cal., but I'm sure it would add to the accuracy...
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Three types of original .40-63 cases you might run into: Left - Berdan-primed everlasting case; Center - UMC Boxer-primed 40-70 case with thin brass, not everlasting (please note the small rifle primer pocket!) ; Right - Boxer-primed everlasting case of heavy brass with large rifle primer pocket.
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Photo of a full-length cartridge next to a short one formed from 7x57R with the bullet seated out to proper length -  each next to an empty case and the straight-line bullet seater. Bullet is 330gr. Ideal #403149.
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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #12 - Jun 20th, 2010 at 6:13pm
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Just ignore the frog over in the corner drooling!  Roll Eyes

Great set of reloading stuff you have there, and a set I have aspired to for quite a while.  Huh

Regards,
Froggie
  
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frnkeore
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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #13 - Jun 20th, 2010 at 6:19pm
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Does anyone have just one pet smokeless load that they can give me?

Frank
  

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Re: 40/63 Ballard loads
Reply #14 - Jun 20th, 2010 at 8:34pm
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You might contact John Bly who sometimes shows up on this board as well as the N-SSA skirmish board and whose son is shooting a 40-60 Maynard.  While he shoots mostly black powder, of course, maybe he has worked up a smokeless load that you would feel safe transposing for your Ballard... I've never shot a 40-63 Ballard, so I would be just guessing, but I would start with a light load of 4759 and see what happens.  That is just my own WAG and of course YMMV!

Froggie
  
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