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bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini (Read 19637 times)

tjshooter Participating Member Offline Posts: 49 Joined: Aug 2^nd, 2009	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #15 - Apr 24^th, 2010 at 3:50pm	Print Post
	MB I did not say a word but I did think a lot. So now two DS small Martini's on show and very nice too. Oh I am picking up a new Greener sporter soon, see you at Bisley before long no doubt. TJ.


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schuetzenguy Junior Member Offline SCHUETZEN GUY Posts: 65 Location: Formerly, East Kootney Joined: Oct 5^th, 2005	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #16 - Apr 24^th, 2010 at 6:06pm	Print Post
	Hello Martini Belgium Yes, Thank you so much. I would agree, "post 1894" ... other than that, I don't see any other hints as to a definite date. I determined the small oval next to the "7" has a small "Crown AF" so it must be another Francotte mark. I find that the letters "DB" and "Fd CHAVE A RENNES" are not listed in "Stockel" so no help there. I was hoping that the "DB" or the "Fd CHAVE RENNE" might have been retailers or distributors with dates associated with them. But I'll keep digging and asking for help on some of the other sites. Thanks again.
	« Last Edit: Apr 24^th, 2010 at 6:25pm by schuetzenguy »
	"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"
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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1687 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #17 - Apr 25^th, 2010 at 2:26am	Print Post
	I do suspect those will be retailer marks only (Rennes, city in France) - but at least you now know that your rifle was entirely made by Francotte. The only date indication would be the proofer's letter. I would 'guesstimate' somewhere between 1897 and 1914. Still, weird that there are no French proofs - after all, this rifle was supposedly sold in France.


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schuetzenguy Junior Member Offline SCHUETZEN GUY Posts: 65 Location: Formerly, East Kootney Joined: Oct 5^th, 2005	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #18 - Apr 25^th, 2010 at 6:13am	Print Post
	Hello MartiniBelgium, Thank you for your input. Yes, I find no other proof marks. If not sold in France, do you think it might have just been "brought into France" by the owner? As mentioned earlier, there is a small "947" on the bottom of the barrel ahead of the forearm. and a lone "7" just to the left of the small "Francotte oval" under the forearm. Is it possible that the "947" is the proof number, and the "7" is for the year 1907"? Some of my German rifles use similar numbering but typically with a "." between the numbers. (i.e. 947.7) I still have found no significance to the "DB" stamp far left of the "Fd CHAVE A RENNES". (but still under the forearm) I was hoping perhaps someone with several Francottes might find similar markings on their rifles and share an opinion here. I obtained these 2 replies from the "Swiss Rifle" forum. I've got my fingers crossed that perhaps something might turn up in the future from them. 1. "..Martini actions in .22 were used by the Swiss for the 50 meter small bore competitions just never with a scope. That Paris-Swiss shooting club does still exist and we might even have members here that are a member there also... Rennes is a town in France and Chave was probably the supplier of the gun, .." 2. "..Yes, we are looking for informations among (very) old members about this rifle. But due to mainly WWII turmoils in Europe, records were scattered and probably lost. I guess this rifle was for 50 m shooting ( one of the two swiss shooting distances with 300 meters), probably for small caliber competitors and Ladies who were quite active at a moment..."
	« Last Edit: Apr 25^th, 2010 at 6:37am by schuetzenguy »
	"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"
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schuetzenguy Junior Member Offline SCHUETZEN GUY Posts: 65 Location: Formerly, East Kootney Joined: Oct 5^th, 2005	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #19 - Apr 25^th, 2010 at 6:43am	Print Post
	I also received this email reply direct to me upon my querry to the Swiss Society. ".. To answer more precisely about the story of this rifle, we have to investigate in our (small) remaining records. Few words about the Société Suisse de Tir de Paris first: Swiss people who stayed outside Switzerland founded many social "swiss clubs" to meet and carry on their swiss traditions. Among them, were cultural (choral society for example) and sports (gymastics and, where possible, shooting) societies. This was the case in France, where stayed one of the largest foreign swiss colony in the second part of the 19 th century. A Paris swiss gymnatics club was founded around 1860, and few years later a shooting section part of it. This section has grown till April 1914 when it became the fully autonomous "Société Suisse de Tir de Paris" or S.S.T.P. Shooting was practiced in different locations around Paris. Men and ladies were active members; shooting rules and organisation for ladies were specifics and probably with diffrent arms than the ones used by men. We have to investigate about this. Records about the the history of the S.S.T.P. were a bit scattered with turmoils associated with the two wars in Europe. Nevertheless your interesting question leads us to find more informations about the rifle you recently bought. One can speculate it was a rifle used for the exercices of the S.S.T.P., not a "gift of honour" from the S.S.T.P. to a distinguished shooter. We will send to you further worthable informations once we find them, if we can..."

	"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"
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