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bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini (Read 19640 times)

schuetzenguy Junior Member Offline SCHUETZEN GUY Posts: 65 Location: Formerly, East Kootney Joined: Oct 5^th, 2005	bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Apr 22^nd, 2010 at 7:46pm	Print Post
	Hello, I just bought another Schuetzen rifle at the Fond du Lac gun show last Saturday. Its a commercial A. Francotte Martini in 22 short caliber. I've been trying to determine the approx date of production and inquiring if anyone might have an old A. Francotte catalog that might show it, or something similar. Information on these old ones is hard to come by. Please don't ask if its for sale ... its not! It's going deep into my collection. As soon as my research is completed, it will be featured in an up-coming magazine article. Since Saturday, I've fired over 500 rounds on the ASSRA 50ft indoor target and it shoots within 10 points of my Stevens #47 Schuetzen in 22 lr. I think its the ammo that is limiting its full potential. I've shown a few pictures and specifications for those interested. There is a Brass Plate in the stock that says - "SOCIETE SUISSE , DE TIR DE PARIS" - 28" Octagon Barrel - Double-Set Trigger (facing) - Swiss Butt - Tang sight - Windage adjustable front sight - weighs 10# - 6oz - Scope marked "8x - 50ft - 200yds & over" (no maker mark) - markings .... "Bbl No. 947 - "FD CHAVE A RENNES" - DB - 7 - 61 - "FRANCOTTES PATENT" - Belgium Proofs - Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	« Last Edit: Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 5:34pm by schuetzenguy »
	"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"
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MAD MIKE Oldtimer Offline Posts: 655 Location: So Cal Joined: Oct 31^st, 2006	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #1 - Apr 22^nd, 2010 at 8:34pm	Print Post
	Buckstix, SWEET!!!! lots of luck with it. Scope looks like ( & sounds like ) Winchester Carolyne they used to put on th model 75s. ...MIKE... P.S. Still not for sale ?


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schuetzenguy Junior Member Offline SCHUETZEN GUY Posts: 65 Location: Formerly, East Kootney Joined: Oct 5^th, 2005	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #2 - Apr 22^nd, 2010 at 9:02pm	Print Post
	Sorry, no ... not for sale. What is a Winchester Carolyne? As a side note .. the scope clamps on to an integral rib on top of the barrel. The rib is about 14" long and has graduations numbered from 0 to 20. Not sure if this was for scope position or for some kind of a sliding rear sight. Anyone know ? (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

	"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"
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fallingblock ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 634 Location: Wisconsin Joined: Apr 16^th, 2004	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #3 - Apr 22^nd, 2010 at 9:15pm	Print Post
	A rear open sight was used on the rib I will try to get a picture of one for you next week. It was used on regular schuetzen rifles also for special matches. Cheers, Laurie

	Cheers, Laurie ASSRA Secretary & Archivist
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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1687 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #4 - Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 6:41am	Print Post
	Congrats on a nice rifle - that is the small 2nd model set-trigger Francotte action, pretty hard to find as such - and even harder under the form of such a nice schuetzen rifle - or rather indoor gallery rifle. However, I do presume the original rifle was not a schuetzen judging from the buttstock and forearm (Brit-style) - like they added the buttplate to the original buttstock, ditto for the palmrest. More like a aftermarket conversion. FWIW, Mine also has the integral barrel rib, but the rifle was made by Weber & Ruesch, Switzerland - but on a Francotte action.


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schuetzenguy Junior Member Offline SCHUETZEN GUY Posts: 65 Location: Formerly, East Kootney Joined: Oct 5^th, 2005	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #5 - Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 8:09am	Print Post
	Thank you so very much for your information. I really appreciate it. I would love to see a photo of your rifle. In looking over this rifle's markings, I find the forearm, stock, and Swiss hook all have matching assembly numbers. The palm rest base is inletted into the forearm with 2 screws. These screw heads, the forearm screw head, and Swiss butt plate mtg screw heads, all have the same engraving pattern. The Swiss hook butt plate has a widow's peak inletted into the top of the stock. It was cast with a hollow shape with the stock wood carved to precisely fit inside it's hollow shell. On the wood's carved surface is the stock's assembly number. There is a matching number on the inside of the butt plate. The length of pull from the back trigger is 14-1/4". I added pics of the ass'y numbers. I assume that "61" is an ass'y number. It is found on the front of the action and on the left side of the trigger group near the back. This same "61" that is found on the forearm, the stock, and Swiss butt plate. I have also shown the proof marks on the barrel .. and just now realized the "01" on the barrel is actually a matching "61" ass'y number stamped into the letter "T" inspection mark. I'm not sure if the "7" might be a date. I don't recognize the small oval mark to the right of the 7. Not shown are letters "DB" and barrel number "947". (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	« Last Edit: Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 5:54pm by schuetzenguy »
	"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"
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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1687 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #6 - Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 8:36am	Print Post
	Below a few pics of mine - a bit of a mistery rifle, as it is very light, has open sights but a Swiss buttplate - and is chambered in 38-40... And no TJ, you still cannot have it! (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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Fred Boulton Oldtimer Offline Posts: 801 Joined: Jan 6^th, 2007	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #7 - Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 11:36am	Print Post
	Nice wood Gert---very nice wood. Fred


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schuetzenguy Junior Member Offline SCHUETZEN GUY Posts: 65 Location: Formerly, East Kootney Joined: Oct 5^th, 2005	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #8 - Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 12:12pm	Print Post
	That is really a nice looking rifle ... and in 38-40 ....WOW! And what awesome wood ..!! I can see why TJ (?) would want it. I added some more pics to my previous post ... Any idea when the "cocking indicator" was patented? .. That might give me a clue of the production date of my rifle.

	"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"
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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1687 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #9 - Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 12:33pm	Print Post
	The cocking indicator was patented on the 27th of december in the UK, patent 16948 - not sure about the year though, but I believe it to be the early 1890's. TJ AKA Trevor Jackson, Brit shooter and friend (very good shooter at that), who tried the rifle last year at Bisley and did seem to like it. He also printed a pretty nice target with it..


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schuetzenguy Junior Member Offline SCHUETZEN GUY Posts: 65 Location: Formerly, East Kootney Joined: Oct 5^th, 2005	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #10 - Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 12:44pm	Print Post
	Thank You .. I really appreciate your info .. I've been having a ball shooting this thing every morning (100 shots) on the 50ft indoor schuetzen target - Nice thing about 22 shorts is you don't need hearing protectors .. what?

	"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"
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38_Cal Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2247 Location: Montezuma, Iowa Joined: Apr 27^th, 2005	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #11 - Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 2:50pm	Print Post
	And do you know the NRA salute? Cup your right hand behind your ear! David

	David Kaiser Montezuma, IA
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11545 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #12 - Apr 24^th, 2010 at 2:30pm	Print Post
	Thanks for sharing Buckstix. Very nice rifle! Is it for sale? Your rifle is wonderful too Gert. Love that wood! Joe.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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schuetzenguy Junior Member Offline SCHUETZEN GUY Posts: 65 Location: Formerly, East Kootney Joined: Oct 5^th, 2005	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #13 - Apr 24^th, 2010 at 3:08pm	Print Post
	Hello Westerner, No Sir, sorry, its not for sale ... it will be used as intended for indoor and 50 meter gallery shooting. I'm still hoping someone with knowledge of these will opine as to date of manufacturer.

	"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"
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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1687 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: bought another Schuetzen rifle- Francotte Martini Reply #14 - Apr 24^th, 2010 at 3:34pm	Print Post
	The proofs will give you a date range - there is a website (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) which will help you in getting there... Just take the rifle in your lap, browse through the marks and check them with the rifle. The 1st quick checks show that it is post-1894.


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