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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) bench rest recommendations (Read 30897 times)
JLouis
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #30 - Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:46am
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Joe no disrespect but the Green Frog asked you how many 250's have you shot at 200 yds and it appears your reply was diverted to what you have personally accomplished at 100 yds? I modified a Caldwell BR front rest to rotate a flat aluminum plate that incorporates double ball bearings and yes I use a Bob Sled attached to the barrel so I do indeed agree with you that it is indeed an improvement if one holds  the tolerances to the modification as close as is humanly possible. Any unrestrictesd or uncontroled movement ( any thing being loose ) on ones front rest will send shots into unknown territories.
  

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joeb33050
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #31 - Mar 18th, 2010 at 6:22am
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Sorry for the diversion, J, my personal number of 250s at 200 yards is 0 = zero. The nearest range here is 100 miles from home, and goes to 100 yards, and I've lived here 10 years.
I'm also sorry for being stupid enough to ask for some testing help here or on any forum. Certainly there have been a lot of folks who've helped in the construction of the book, but requests for testing have gone unanswered every single time. I won't ask again.

joe b.



JLouis wrote on Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:46am:
Joe no disrespect but the Green Frog asked you how many 250's have you shot at 200 yds and it appears your reply was diverted to what you have personally accomplished at 100 yds? I modified a Caldwell BR front rest to rotate a flat aluminum plate that incorporates double ball bearings and yes I use a Bob Sled attached to the barrel so I do indeed agree with you that it is indeed an improvement if one holds  the tolerances to the modification as close as is humanly possible. Any unrestrictesd or uncontroled movement ( any thing being loose ) on ones front rest will send shots into unknown territories.

  
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boats
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #32 - Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:12pm
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I sure hate to jump in on this one but

250 @ 100 is one thing 250 @ 200 is a whole different game.  Target might be scaled however conditions make a world of difference as distance gets longer.

I have never seen a 250 @ 200 some have been fired at matches I normally attend but never when I was there  It's probably the ultimate single shot bench rest achievement and requires every component tuned to the max.  Rest is a key part of the task.

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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #33 - Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:43pm
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Testing as a sport is a fine thing to do, However if scores are what you are after it's much simpler to look at the equipment top shooters use and use the same. The ultimate test is competition.  If something rises to the top there is a reason.

Equipment is way less than 1/4 of this game, as long as it's up to standard it makes little difference which rest  barrel scope powder or anything else somebody uses.  Most shooting sports physical ability is 1/3 of the game, mental management is another 1/3  Give the small remainder to luck, and I not so sure about that part.

My advice is spend your time learning how to shoot, use the equipment that wins matches. Don't get hung up over one brand or another.

Boats
  
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #34 - Mar 18th, 2010 at 1:34pm
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I heartily agree with boats! Much of what I have learned about shooting has come from watching other shooters and a little experimentation on my part. One of the folks I use to watch closely was Lowell Hamilton, and particularly his bench equipment, if Lowell did it then I knew it must be good, but then there are shooters like Donn Hanks who seem to do well regardless of what equipment they use, so much of it is skill.

Bob
  
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #35 - Mar 18th, 2010 at 4:49pm
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Bob the term around here is "go to school on him" and it's a great way to learn to shoot well. I always pick out somebody good and keep my eye on what he does. Not intrusive or pestering with questions just analyze the methods from a distance.  I have learned much from watching

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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #36 - Mar 19th, 2010 at 9:42am
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Patience and wind reading are the two critical ingredients for fine rest shooting. Most of us all ready have a rifle capable of giving us groups small enough to score a 250. I have spent more time learning to read the wind than anything else since I started to seriously shoot plain based bench rest. When I first started I thought that “reading the wind,” meant learning where small changes in the wind would take your bullet. I got charts and studied where wind from a direction would take a bullet. I have busted more targets than I care to count because I thought I knew where the wind would put my bullet. 
For us the key is learning where to put your flags on a course. If you don’t put your flags where they will read the changes on the course than you can’t shoot the condition. Unfortunately, for me this is still a trial and error kind of thing. I always start with my probe at about 25 to 30 feet and a flag just far enough behind that so my tails won’t foul in the probe. Then I start to look for things at the sides of the range that will change the flow of the wind given the prevalent general direction. Than when you shoot you start to try and find out why a good shot went well outside the group. This is where collaboration helps if there is something that you missed another shooter may have picked up on a change in condition at a point on the course that you missed. Than you either need to move one of your flags of make a mental note to start watching the flag that picked up on the change. I know that is a lot of plates to keep spinning but that is the game. 
  The real revelation for me was in a bull session when Jerry DeVauderill said that the real key to his wind reading ability was patience. He told me he has ben known to wait for over a couple of relays for his condition to come back. It’s not about pulling a shot when a condition changes. It’s about having the patience to wait for your condition to shoot. This is a skill that I still struggle with.
40 Rod
  
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joeb33050
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #37 - Mar 19th, 2010 at 10:39am
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boats wrote on Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:12pm:
I sure hate to jump in on this one but

250 @ 100 is one thing 250 @ 200 is a whole different game.  Target might be scaled however conditions make a world of difference as distance gets longer.

Yes, but the effect of conditions on group size is easily calculated. For 5 shot groups, 200 yard groups are ~ 2.2 X the size of 100 yard groups.
For 10 shot groups, 200 yard groups are ~2.35 X 100 yard groups.
Or, for 10 shot groups, 100 yard groups of ~ .43 X 200 yard groups are equivalent.
To shoot 10 into 1.5" at 200 yards, the equivalent is .43 X 1.5" =.64".
Since we know the correction factor, equivalents are easily calculated. 

I have never seen a 250 @ 200 some have been fired at matches I normally attend but never when I was there  It's probably the ultimate single shot bench rest achievement and requires every component tuned to the max.  Rest is a key part of the task.

We watched Gerry Ventura shoot the first 200 yard 250 at the Alabama Hunt Club in 1988. If my memory serves, he used a Stevens 44 in 32/40. It was a SS rifle that had something to do with the old days. Before technology took over.Boats

joe b.
  
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joeb33050
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #38 - Mar 19th, 2010 at 10:44am
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[quote author=34305F526F64000 link=1267717673/37#37 date=1269006134]Patience and wind reading are the two critical ingredients for fine rest shooting. 
 The real revelation for me was in a bull session when Jerry DeVauderill said that the real key to his wind reading ability was patience. He told me he has ben known to wait for over a couple of relays for his condition to come back. It’s not about pulling a shot when a condition changes. It’s about having the patience to wait for your condit

[b]I've seen Jerry take about forever to get the next shot off, particularly at Old Colony. Somewhere we lost any notion of time or timed matches-a lot-in the ASSRA. 
joe b.
[/b]


  
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westerner
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #39 - Mar 19th, 2010 at 10:44am
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When shooting the five bull targets with the .22 the windage adjustable rest is a big plus because you don't disturb the rear bag when moving from target to target. The same goes for the centerfires at 100 and 200 yards when going from the sighter target to the score target.


Lots of good posts here but havent heard from Singleshotsam.  What say you Sam?    Huh


          Joe.
  

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westerner
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #40 - Mar 19th, 2010 at 10:49am
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Somewhere we lost any notion of time or timed matches-a lot-in the ASSRA.
joe b.[/b]

Joe if you study Schutzen matches there were no stringent time limits. So nothing has been lost. If anything we have increased the use of time limits. 
You are still thinking CBA and modern BR and military style shooting.

  Joe.
« Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2010 at 10:54am by westerner »  

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joeb33050
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #41 - Mar 19th, 2010 at 10:49am
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Quote:
Joe B.
So you're giving it a rest?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm not surprised that someone with the equipment and talent to do a valid test of a Hoppe's rest against say...a Farley Coaxial,  isn't too interested in helping (you) out.  Why waste  time taking a step backward in order to prove some else's assertion or theory?

The first few replies to the original post seemed helpful. There was also a long section in there reminiscent of the relentless beating of a dead horse named Lee Autoprime.

I guess you're one of the few who didn't understand about the Lee Autoprime. 
And you're among the majority here who don't want any facts to intrude on your opinions. Opinion certainly trumps fact at yopur house, and we can avoid any potential embarrasment should we find that rests have less effect on accuracy than opined by not searching for the truth.
Maybe you can't handle the truth.
joe b.   
  
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #42 - Mar 19th, 2010 at 10:53am
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.
  

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joeb33050
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #43 - Mar 19th, 2010 at 10:54am
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boats wrote on Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:43pm:
Testing as a sport is a fine thing to do, However if scores are what you are after it's much simpler to look at the equipment top shooters use and use the same. The ultimate test is competition.  If something rises to the top there is a reason.

Equipment is way less than 1/4 of this game, as long as it's up to standard it makes little difference which rest  barrel scope powder or anything else somebody uses. 
 
A look over the records and who shot what will demonstrate that this is not true. Actions, barrels, scopes molds and rests have made all the difference over the last 25 years. Now 250s at 100 yards are as common as dirt, but how many have been made with rifles that were produced before H.M. died? 
Like most other sports, SS shooting has turned into a money game.
The recipe is simple, be a machinist with a lot of money.
Stop the nonsense.
joe b.





Most shooting sports physical ability is 1/3 of the game, mental management is another 1/3  Give the small remainder to luck, and I not so sure about that part.

My advice is spend your time learning how to shoot, use the equipment that wins matches. Don't get hung up over one brand or another.

Boats

  
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Dave
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Re: bench rest recommendations
Reply #44 - Mar 19th, 2010 at 11:19am
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yawn
  
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