Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Highwall Action (Read 8797 times)
Skalkaho
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 795
Location: Montana
Joined: Sep 29th, 2006
Highwall Action
Feb 25th, 2010 at 9:19am
Print Post  
Is one better than the other for our sport? Flatspring or coilspring? Pro or con, speed, locktime, strength of action in last original models built? I have all flatsprings myself. Thankyou, Pete
  

May the Bullet Gods be with you.......
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Green_Frog
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


"It ain't easy being green"
ASSRA Life #281

Posts: 4070
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Joined: Apr 18th, 2004
Re: Highwall Action
Reply #1 - Feb 25th, 2010 at 3:24pm
Print Post  
Pete, I raised that question on this board myself a year or two ago, fully expecting to have my preconceived notion verified.  One of the folks whose opinion I respect most highly explained why the opposite was true, then others went back and forth giving advantages and disadvantages of each.  For sheer durability, the later, coil spring action is probably better, with less chance of breaking a spring, but the flat spring action is easier for me to assemble and disassemble.  Tuning them is about a wash, and as for strength, the later the action, the better I expect the steel to be (probably) which is why my Winchester proofed coil spring musket action now has a .45-70 barrel instead of it being grafted to a neat old flat spring action I originally planned to use.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it!  Cool

Froggie
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Skalkaho
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 795
Location: Montana
Joined: Sep 29th, 2006
Re: Highwall Action
Reply #2 - Feb 26th, 2010 at 9:55am
Print Post  
Sounds good Froggy, thanks, Pete
  

May the Bullet Gods be with you.......
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
waterman
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2852
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Joined: Jun 9th, 2004
Re: Highwall Action
Reply #3 - Feb 26th, 2010 at 12:24pm
Print Post  
There was some discussion a couple of years ago about putting a flat spring on a coil spring action and having a "double spring" action, with a lightened hammer.  Maybe even a titanium hammer.  I think there is at least 1 action rebuilt that way in use on a 22LR target rifle.  Does anyone know about such a set up?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Green_Frog
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


"It ain't easy being green"
ASSRA Life #281

Posts: 4070
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Joined: Apr 18th, 2004
Re: Highwall Action
Reply #4 - Feb 26th, 2010 at 4:44pm
Print Post  
Waterman,

    You would have to use a flat spring action to give the spring a place to come through.  The one built like this (that I have seen) is owned by my friend FITZ, who has a centerfire rifle set up this way for offhand work.  I must confess that I haven't had the opportunity to examine it closely, but I believe it has an original hammer that has been lightened rather than something exotic like titanium.  Maybe he will chime in and tell us more.   Wink

Froggie
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
singleshotom
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 371
Location: tofield AB. Canada
Joined: Feb 23rd, 2008
Re: Highwall Action
Reply #5 - Feb 26th, 2010 at 5:25pm
Print Post  
Never heard of having both springs working in the action but Ron Smith has converted many flat spring actions to coil and has then lighten the hammer somewhat to increase speed but there is a limit to the amount of reduction for sure. Too light and there is problems with ignition reliability! In addition to this I have shortened the length of travel a bit by moving the groove closer to the half cock location.
The reason mainly for converting to coil, that he believed a coil was faster and then with a coil there was the opportunity to attach a hanger to the action to affix the fore-end and have the barrel free floated. And as you know that would be impossible with a flat spring type system.
SST
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FITZ
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


REGARDS

Posts: 917
Location: MASSACHUSETTS
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Highwall Action
Reply #6 - Feb 26th, 2010 at 9:39pm
Print Post  
Hey guy's. I have a Thick side flat spring action setup with both Flat and Coil springs. It goes like this. Find one of the later Flat spring Hammers that was relieved just like the Coil spring hammer. You can then using a Coil spring block assemble the action with both springs in play/use. The hammer MUST have the extension for the Flat spring. I think these Hammers were a transition that Winchester went thru to improve lock time in the flat spring rifles. It does create a fast Hammer fall, in fact you should not do any of the other Hammer lightening stunts. Holes thru the web are not a good idea. The hammer fall is heavy enough to break the hammer thru the hole. The rifle cocks itself nicely with the lever. But trying to thumb the Hammer to full cock will show you the difference. The rifle is a 32-40 with a Douglas Premium barrel that I fitted up and chambered myself. It has been a tackdriver for me offhand. Another warning, the Hammer strike is stiff enough to tip the Rifle forward and down. All you need to do is dry fire it with a Scope to see the results. For me this makes almost 6" zero dip at 200 Yds. HTH Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

FITZ
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
hst
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 569
Joined: Jun 3rd, 2004
Re: Highwall Action
Reply #7 - Feb 27th, 2010 at 1:35am
Print Post  
Gentlemens:

There is indeed one High Wall with a short throw (3/8") Titanium hammer driven by both a coil and flat spring.  It sure enough seems fast and the moving mass is greatly reduced. It is owned by someone y'all kicked off this board so a field report is not available, but I know he believes it really helps.

Glenn
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FITZ
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


REGARDS

Posts: 917
Location: MASSACHUSETTS
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Highwall Action
Reply #8 - Feb 27th, 2010 at 11:47am
Print Post  
Glen, I also made up a Titanium Hammer. But when I considered the strike I felt I needed a Steel insert for the Sear surface and also one for the Hammer face where it strikes the Firing pin. Titanium is tough but not very hard, it will peen and move under impact. I could not find a satisfactory method in my mind for fastening in the inserts. You can braze or silver solder to Titanium but it gives off carcinogen gasses. So I chose not to do that. Still have the Hammer all roughed out but not finished some 30 years later. Someday I will just go for it and press a couple of inserts in it and see what happens with use. Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

FITZ
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
irish66
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 536
Location: newbraunfels
Joined: Apr 7th, 2007
Re: Highwall Action
Reply #9 - Feb 27th, 2010 at 10:37pm
Print Post  
you can get te titanium solution heat treated. but there are other nickle based alloys that would work as well. that are hard.
even a good piece of heat treated 17-4 that has been skeletonised.
but i will still whip your butt with any of my walls without all the fancy not original parts.
irish
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
hst
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 569
Joined: Jun 3rd, 2004
Re: Highwall Action
Reply #10 - Feb 28th, 2010 at 3:06am
Print Post  
Fitz:

What used to be called Grade 2 Titanium alloy (it has a new numeric name I gather) is tough and hard enough for a hammer. What you have from 30 years ago is probably unalloyed Ti and it might well be too soft. Even grade 2 is not hard enough for a sear surface though...  we used a pressed in hardened A2 insert for the sear surface.

I used such a Ti hammer in a rolling block for a silhouette rifle. It was fired thousands of times with no noticable effect on the hammer face.

Glenn
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FITZ
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


REGARDS

Posts: 917
Location: MASSACHUSETTS
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Highwall Action
Reply #11 - Feb 28th, 2010 at 9:59pm
Print Post  
Glen, I had not thought about modern Ti alloys. I do make prototype operating insturments routinely now out of Ti Will look into the hardness issue. 
Irish, Maybe. My current Hiwall flame is a Takedown Schuetzen in 32-40 witha # 4 full octagon barrel with the top three flats matted. I have to admit I am shooting it just as well as the "hotrod" with double springs and such. the real deal though is you will be beating the shooter, not the Rifle. Regards, FITZ. Wink
  

FITZ
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint