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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) NRA Grievence Petition ... (Read 16163 times)
John Boy
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NRA Grievence Petition ...
Feb 22nd, 2010 at 12:18am
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This petition relates to NRA's lack of support to black powder shooters, both US and the International Events in that the NRA refuses to properly support the competitions department, and treat the sport as a legitimate shooting venue.  An example is:
The 2010 International Creedmoor Match was scheduled to be held at the Whittington Center.  With no other excuse than 'lack of funding', the Match was cancelled (after scheduling it) leaving multiple International and US participants with no event this year.  In addition, over the years, NRA's support for BPCR events has materially diminished, yet NRA's support for non black powder events is strong and contiues to grow
  
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irish66
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #1 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 7:22am
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call and talk to greg connors and you will find out you are dealing with an ex marine who is playing politician. get an answer from him he will have it.
also keep in mind that the nra is probably too busy dealing with the hnic to think about the shooters.
  
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trapdoor Dick
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #2 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 10:20am
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Might should be that the NRA re-register as a PAC and we start another "shooting" organization. They're acting as a non-profit PAC now and doing a reasonably good job of it. Let them do that, and oops, guess I forgot they have a sub-org called the ILA for Gov't stuff. This means the NRA part should be supporting us 100%. So why aren't they?
  

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb. - Benjamin Franklin
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Set_Trigger
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #3 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 10:34am
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While your talking to him ask why NRA wont support Schuetzen Shooting or any type of Bench Rest Shooting. I asked but never received an answer. 
S T
  
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tim_s
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #4 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 11:30am
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Out of curiosity, why would you believe the NRA would need to be involved in the benchrest community given a resaonable history with the IBS and NBRSA?
  

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Set_Trigger
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #5 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 8:55pm
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I'm guessing they should be involved because it's the largest Firearms Association in the world ?. But for some reason they will not or do not support certain types of shooting Sports.

I don't think they "need" to be involved in Benchrest, Schuetzen, or for that matter BPCR. But they are very involved with some Rifle and Handgun shooting sports and have very organized events for the many thousands of shooters that participate in them. so It only seems natural to me that they would be involved in all shooting sports. 

Like I've said, it's the largest Firearms Association in the world so my question again, does anyony know why NRA wont support Schuetzen Shooting or any type of Bench Rest Shooting ?.

As to the NBRSA and the IBS, it's my understanding that IBS was formed because of the bad things the officials were doing in NBRSA, not sure about this as I wasn't involved at the time, only know what I read and hear from some of the old timers.  Can you enlighten us as to the reasonable history of the IBS, NBRSA,  and NRA. I've never heard anything about it. 

Last time I checked I counted about 10 different Benchrest Associations, way to many different rules and very confusing for most, about the only thing they have in common is that they are all Rifle shooting associations.
S T
  
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Kurt_701
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #6 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 9:23pm
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Gentlemen,
I am a Highpower and Smallbore shooter. I have been for thirty-five years. I am also a Benefactor member of the NRA.  The truth is every since Knox's revolution in 1977, the NRA has become more politically based than shooter based.  The National Matches have seen a decrease in funding. The DCM was taken out of the Govt budget and became the CMP. The NRA is no longer the recognized body for the US olympic programs. The Whittington Center has  been spun off. Competitors at Pistol, Highpower, and Smallbore have seen fees increase. I would guess with the establishment of a Competitive Shooting Foundation, the NRA will separate themselves from Competition in the Future.  I think no one receives the support they want. It has a lot to do with a limited amount of money. We have a choice pay Higher dues to the NRA or support our own programs. The NRA has had several political successes.  What is right ?  The NRA needs our support or our troubles will be greater. Gun control looms out there. 
Change the NRA from within.  Some of the Board is up for election. Vote.   
Kurt
  

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bpsteve
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #7 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 10:22pm
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Kurt,
You are correct on all counts but one. MONEY
The NRA collects very substancial entry fees from the competitors and puts the money into the general fund rather that putting it back into the matches.
They then use the excuse of NO MONEY when anyone complains about their lack of service!
We shot the Black Powder Target Rifle Nationals in July 2009 and still have not received any results or awards!!
Greg Conners may be a ex Marine but he receives a pay check for his job just like the rest of the NRA officials and they are NOT DOING THEIR JOBS! 
Support for the International Creedmoor match should be a fundamental requirement for the NRA. It was the Creedmoor match in 1874 that was the reason the NRA was created. That was their original charter.
Steve R.
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Set_Trigger
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #8 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 12:12am
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Kurt,
Like Steve said, the NRA has more than enough money to support all the shooting events with the enter fees they receive, they take in a lot more than they pay out to the shooters. I've been an NRA shooter since 1960, been to Camp Perry about 25 times, seen a lot of changes take place. 

There is money to be made, I think I seen where they run about 10,000 events a year, the pay back to the shooter is next to nothing compared to what they bring in. Being that there's money to be made I still wonder why NRA wont do Benchrest and Schuetzen. 
Maybe there's not enough interest in those two shooting disciplines but with there input and push I'm sure they could build them up to be money makers. 

The NRA was built on the Shooting Sports and should support all organized shooting events, yes I know about how they fight bad gun laws and of course it's great,  but they have separate funding for that with the ILA. 

I believe that Shooting Sports money should be put back into the Shooting Sports. If some knew the wages, benefits, and perks that some of the paid NRA guys receive you would be amazed at what they get for what they do.
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40_Rod
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #9 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 8:31am
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Given the NRA’s track record with BPCR I can’t see why anyone would want NRA involvement with their shooting sport. The BPCR guys are livid at the changes that the NRA made to their sport with little or no input from the actual shooters. Benchrest does very well with their two organizations and so does schuetzen. If you think you don’t like what the ASSRA does I shudder to think what would happen to it after the NRA takes over. I prefer to have my organization run by folks that actually shoot the sport. Those guys in Washington wouldn’t know Harry Pope from Pope Pius. The NRA has its uses in fighting for our gun rights but they have lost touch with the shooters especially those who shoot historical based programs. 

40 Rod
  
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bpsteve
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #10 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 10:49am
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40,
The idea of splitting off from the NRA has surfaced more than once with the BPCR guys but the majority still feel that the effort is better served if we can get some of the issues resolved with the NRA.
If we do it it should be better for all forms of competition as well.
That's why we need support from all competitive shooters.
Please take the time to write a letter and sign the petition.
Thanks for your interest.
Steve R.
AZ.
  
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Jimofatl
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #11 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 11:05am
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Very good comments and concerns from all. 
The NRA's lack of support is not just a problem for BPCR and BPTR venues.It affects us all. The grievance letters and petitions are our last ditch efforts to awaken the powers to be. If we sit back and do nothing, we will get nothing accomplished.

Please join our efforts and submit your own concerns. Individual letters make more of an impact than a single document. It's easy to sit back and say this is not my fight, but it affects all shooting sports. There must be something in the water in the Washington, DC area that give officials visions of adequacy.  Let them know they are about to lose their grass root support. If you need a copy of the petition to include with your letter, contact me at jekidwell Space @ Space bellsouth.net

Address your letters to:

Wayne LaPierre
NRA Executive Vice President
Chris Cox
Executive Director of NRA/ILA
Ronald Schmeits
NRA President
send all to;
11250 Waples Mill Rd.
Fairfax, VA 22030

Wayne Armacost
NRA Whittington Center Executive Director
PO Box 700
Raton, NM 87740

JimK
  
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tim_s
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #12 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 11:20am
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Quote:

I'm guessing they should be involved because it's the largest Firearms Association in the world ?. But for some reason they will not or do not support certain types of shooting Sports.

I don't think they "need" to be involved in Benchrest, Schuetzen, or for that matter BPCR. But they are very involved with some Rifle and Handgun shooting sports and have very organized events for the many thousands of shooters that participate in them. so It only seems natural to me that they would be involved in all shooting sports. 

Like I've said, it's the largest Firearms Association in the world so my question again, does anyony know why NRA wont support Schuetzen Shooting or any type of Bench Rest Shooting ?.

As to the NBRSA and the IBS, it's my understanding that IBS was formed because of the bad things the officials were doing in NBRSA, not sure about this as I wasn't involved at the time, only know what I read and hear from some of the old timers.  Can you enlighten us as to the reasonable history of the IBS, NBRSA,  and NRA. I've never heard anything about it. 

Last time I checked I counted about 10 different Benchrest Associations, way to many different rules and very confusing for most, about the only thing they have in common is that they are all Rifle shooting associations.
S T



S T, Well The seperation of IBS-NBRSA goes back many years and there are various opinions but to the point ,both are reasonably functioning, vibrant organizations, self supporting and I believe have no particular interest in incumbering themselves with the beurocracy and  additional moving parts the NRA requires. I'm not aware there has ever been an instance where it was thought the NRA was needed or asked. You've got group shooting, score, nationals, world championships, hall of fame, all funtioning pretty well. In rimfire BR you have several sanctioning bodies doing OK
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2010 at 1:00pm by tim_s »  

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tim_s
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #13 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 11:29am
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Actually, I can think of a pretty substantial number of shooting disciplines that function pretty well independant of the NRA. If they are funded by and service the niche of their particular shooter interest, why subject yourself to most everything required by an organizational oversight .
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2010 at 1:01pm by tim_s »  

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boats
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Re: NRA Grievence Petition ...
Reply #14 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 11:57am
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I fully realise that other shooting disciplines have different experience.  However as a long time Silhouette shooter and current match director for Smallbore silhouette at our club I think the NRA does a pretty good job of running the sport.  I don't know anything about how much support was asked or expected from NRA for the Creedmore match and would not like to  sign a petition given how little I know about the circumstances

I do hear a lot of complaints from BPCS shooters but having shot it my self since the beginning doubt if it would have become as popular without NRA's sanction.  I have known guys, members not employees, on the Silhouette committee who have said it's not an easy group to please.  One problem has been the squadding of matches at Raton with advantage going to one group or another depending on conditions that day. Only way around that would be to group the competitors only shooting the top guys in a single day.  However it seems the majority don't like that idea.  As is it's not a true national championship just a major match.

There are a lot of disciplines however and doubt if NRA has the resources to run them all. Add them up pistol shotgun rifle and all could be two dozen different shooting sports with sub categories like we have with single shots.   When it comes to our sport just Schuetzen, Competition is run locally at the club level with little interference or support from the 3 national groups at all. Some clubs that's good others it's not so good. If somebody put it all together shot all Schuetzen under one umbrella like NRA could offer, we would be better off, in my opinion that is. 

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