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Old-Win
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Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Feb 18th, 2010 at 10:16am
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With the current discussion on .22's I thought I would ask this question.  Last year I finished an offhand rifle on a highwall musket action so I could practice during the winter.  I always get my tail kicked in the offhand portion of the gong matches that I shoot.  I know it's not as critical as schuetzen but if one wants to finish high, he has to do well at the offhand target.  It has a GM barrel and Steve Baldwin chambered it with a Benz reamer and a slight crush fit on the rim.  So far, I've only used Aguila match, T-22's, and Rem Target for the offhand work.  All of them take hard thumb pressure to seat about the last 3/16's of an inch (Remingtons the worst) so I use the bevel on the block to seat the cartridge.
Do you think this method of seating the cartridge would affect accuracy??  Is there some kind of tool that one could safely use to cam the .22 cartridge straight in??  Bob
  
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waterman
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #1 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 12:07pm
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I have bent more than a few cases seating Shorts in my Winder.  There seems to be a point in seating where there is more push parallel to the barrel & in line with the bore than vertical (in line with the rising block).
  
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Skalkaho
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #2 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 1:30pm
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I have a RKS 22RF barrel match chambered by Cody arms( Wyoming armory) on my Low Wall. I can slide the case in easy enough and use twizzers to pull it out. This barrel will do 10 shots at 50' literally one hole group.  How tight of A chamber do you really need, besides being offhand with the human error of placing your shots? On aguila I wipe off there lube and use SPG instead ,at matches  I use Wolf ammo. Maybe try other ammo to see what feeds well and shoots good.Pete
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #3 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 5:42pm
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It can depend too on what ammo the 'smith cut the chamber for, and rim thickness variations.

In my heavy barrelled Ruger #1 conversion Steve Durren built for me the chamber is cut tight and I use a wooden pusher stick to seat it the last little bit rather than risk crushing a rim on a rimfire case.  this is the gun I use mostly for the 200 yd bench target. 
my offhand rifles are both European and while they have tight bores they chamber just a little easier and I can do it with thumb pressure alone
  

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waterman
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #4 - Feb 19th, 2010 at 12:46pm
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Maybe that is why so many older 22 match rifles were built on Ballard or Stevens 44 actions.
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #5 - Feb 19th, 2010 at 5:43pm
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I love both hi an’ lowalls but they’re not well designed to shoot 22 rimfire ammo, when you close the lever on a Winchester the block comes almost straight up and as the lever and link move past center the block drops down about a 32nd of an inch, so that there’s always a little space between the breech block and the head of the cartridge, with a Ballard you can chamber them to actually put pressure on the cartridge head, in fact I’ve seen a few Ballards that were so tightly chambered that you had to close them gingerly as not to fire the gun, none the less I've seen some Winchester 22’s that were wonderfully accurate, so I know it can be done. On the guns that were originally made as 22 rimfires, Winchester tried to help the problem by cutting a bevel in the top of the breechblock.

Bob 
  
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screwloosetc
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #6 - Feb 19th, 2010 at 9:45pm
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What about the Martinis? I dont think i've seen an inacurate Martini. Block comes straight up.
Tom
  
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #7 - Feb 20th, 2010 at 3:30am
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My dad had a Martini. Couldnt hit a pie plate with it. The block rotates up dont they? Point of rotation being at the top  rear of the block?
Dad purchased two #3 Internationals from the fellow in New York. One rifle was an old beater the other looked like a new rifle. I got the beater and it shot like a house afire. It made me giggle every time I heard pa cuss that rifle of his. Grin  Sold the old beater to Bob Bowman. Bobs happy Wink.

Seems to me if you cant push a .22 round in all the way with your thumb, somethings wrong.  Mismatched bullet/throat combo? Tight bore?

                 Joe.
  

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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #8 - Feb 20th, 2010 at 3:59am
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Tom,

As Joe said, the Martini block doesn't come straight up - it rotates on a pin in the rear of the block, which means it also moves forward, which helps in seating.  FWIW, my Mk V Int'l cams the rounds in, and it is almost impossible to re-use an unfired round that has been extracted.  Shoots pretty well, too...
Maybe I should get it out some more - after all, I still have that large stash of Lapua Midas lying around!
  
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screwloosetc
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #9 - Feb 20th, 2010 at 7:00am
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You are correct. when I was shooting the local matches with my Weighed and measured walmart stuff Friends gave me samples of what they were shooting to try to prove to me their amunition was better I still have some of it. Did Midas make oversize amunition?
Look at my post in the crosshairs. I plan on doing that as soon as the snow goes away. back to original post Lowall good for practice but not a target rifle. 
Tom
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #10 - Feb 21st, 2010 at 9:08am
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Skalkoho, I had the rifle chambered with a Benz reamer because I understood that it was tighter than standard but not as tight as a match reamer.  They usually use that reamer when making custom Ruger 10-22's.  I'll try other ammo as well but I've had some on backorder from Midway for some time.  There was a fellow out west that was making a tool for camming cartridges into HW's, Hepburns and others for BPCR shooters that wanted to seat them hard into the lands.  Do any of you have contact information for him??  Thanks
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #11 - Feb 21st, 2010 at 11:53am
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Old-Win,

I think that's Steve Rhoades;

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Bob
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #12 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 8:22am
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Thanks for the info, Bob.  I talked to a friend last night and his is a little different with the initials DSR on the handle.  I may have to get one from Rhoades if I can't find the other.
  
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Re: Camming .22's in a High Wall.
Reply #13 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 10:49am
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Here's something to think about. I would be willing to wager a shiny new quarter that agrevating this issue on many guns which can be greatly improved, is the fact that a lot of folks rarely clean their bores and more to the point, fewer still clean their rifles throats. In most guns lead and carbon build up as a hard ring in the throat of any rifle and it ultimately can make chambering tougher, especially where there's minimal leverage. With an occasional cleaning of this fouling in the throat, I'd bet a lot of guns are going to chamber rounds a lot easier. Try it and see. Use IOOSO or a bit of JB wrapped on a nylon brush and short stroke it in the throat. You got nothing to lose except about 10 bucks and  a few minutes of your time It works.
  

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