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caithness77
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Hammerli Martini.
Jan 17th, 2010 at 6:46pm
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Just thought I'd share some photos of my Hammerli Martini I've finished refinishing. I have actually placed an add on usedguns.com.au to ask for expressions of interest (offers). Some say that I'm crazy to even consider selling the piece, but since the time I acquired it more and more detail has been emerging regarding what I would need to shoot in her.
So it's a Hammerli Martini, smithed by a J.U.Banziger of St.Gallen, Switzerland. He died in 1906 so the rifle was obviously made before then. 33" Hex barrel, 4 groove, 1-10 twist, 7.5x55 cal, apparently should only shoot paper patched lead bullets.
Any thoughts would be appreciated, though I expect this being a collectors section everyone is going to say KEEP IT.

Stu
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #1 - Jan 17th, 2010 at 8:32pm
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I believe that is a high-powered 300-meter offhand match rifle using the Swiss military cartridge for the Schmidt-Rubin rifle.  A friend of mine has one somewhat like it (without the scope, which looks like a Litschert) and it shoots very well.  The set triggers are very nice.  If I recall, this was the rifle to beat in the 1920's-1930's era in the Olympic shooting events.  Lots of articles appeared in the American Rifleman about how Springfields were being tricked out with fancy stocks and set triggers in an effort to beat the Swiss Martinis.

You shouldn't have any trouble getting some Swiss 7.5 x 55 Schmidt-Rubin ammo from surplus cartridge dealers.
  
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DesBon
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #2 - Jan 17th, 2010 at 9:29pm
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Hello Stuart,

Nice job, the wood  has cleaned up nicely in comparison to that shown  in your Dec. post. Have you slugged the bore to see if you have the smaller bore 1890  7.5 x 53-1/2 or the 1911 7.5 x 55 bore ? You don't need to paper patch the cast lead bullets if you have the 1890 smaller bore; just size the 30 cal bullets down or get a custom mold.

Cheers,
Des in Sacramento 


  
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caithness77
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #3 - Jan 17th, 2010 at 10:04pm
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Bent_Ramrod wrote on Jan 17th, 2010 at 8:32pm:
I believe that is a high-powered 300-meter offhand match rifle using the Swiss military cartridge for the Schmidt-Rubin rifle.  A friend of mine has one somewhat like it (without the scope, which looks like a Litschert) and it shoots very well.  The set triggers are very nice.  If I recall, this was the rifle to beat in the 1920's-1930's era in the Olympic shooting events.  Lots of articles appeared in the American Rifleman about how Springfields were being tricked out with fancy stocks and set triggers in an effort to beat the Swiss Martinis.

You shouldn't have any trouble getting some Swiss 7.5 x 55 Schmidt-Rubin ammo from surplus cartridge dealers.


Hello Bent_Ramrod,
This barrel is too soft to take the normal jacketed bullets of today, though the previous owner did use 20 rounds of 7.5x55 factory ammo in her (what sacrilege!!). But that's one of the reasons I bought it, to use conventional handloads it her. But now the interest is wearing very thin in having a rifle in the safe just to go and shoot paper a few times a year.

Stu
  
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caithness77
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #4 - Jan 17th, 2010 at 10:09pm
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DesBon wrote on Jan 17th, 2010 at 9:29pm:
Hello Stuart,

Nice job, the wood  has cleaned up nicely in comparison to that shown  in your Dec. post. Have you slugged the bore to see if you have the smaller bore 1890  7.5 x 53-1/2 or the 1911 7.5 x 55 bore ? You don't need to paper patch the cast lead bullets if you have the 1890 smaller bore; just size the 30 cal bullets down or get a custom mold.

Cheers,
Des in Sacramento 



Hello again Des,
Yes I slugger the bore and since talking with you last found a lovely fellow not far from me that had an exact Hammerli years ago. Absolute wealth of information and right on my door step!! Go figure!
Have not loaded anything as yet, but should I decide to keep it this guy has said he will show me the ropes as such and get the ol' girls running again. I'll keep you updated.
In the mean time, any idea on value for such an item?

Cheers mate,
Stu
  
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Singleshotlover
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #5 - Jan 18th, 2010 at 12:32am
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Stuart, lovely rifle. I think Des is on to something about the shorter 7.5 case. As this is the one used in the older SR rifles. Think the standard 7.5 swiss cartridge that we know of today came out later. And definitely no jacketed bullets down the tube. You may want to post at swissrifles.com and get some more information. Hope this helps. Frank
  

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caithness77
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #6 - Jan 18th, 2010 at 12:56am
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Singleshotlover wrote on Jan 18th, 2010 at 12:32am:
Stuart, lovely rifle. I think Des is on to something about the shorter 7.5 case. As this is the one used in the older SR rifles. Think the standard 7.5 swiss cartridge that we know of today came out later. And definitely no jacketed bullets down the tube. You may want to post at swissrifles.com and get some more information. Hope this helps. Frank


Hello Frank,
Interesting that you suggest the Swiss Rifle Forum, Des had already recommended looking for help there. Can't say that I got very much, in fact I find it very difficult to believe that they didn't share very much at all. I met another Aussie on there and he was a wealth of information as he had experience with the very same rifle. Irony is that he lives just one hour away!
The smith was J.U. Banziger, he and or the family had a lot to do with developing the 9.3x53 Banziger and the 10.3x65R Banziger. Since these cartridges are listed in the old cartridge books, you'd think more people of the Swiss forum would have knowledge. Whoops, maybe I should say 'share the knowledge'!
In any case I have found a lot of information by just persevering. 

Cheers,
Stu
  
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Singleshotlover
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #7 - Jan 19th, 2010 at 1:04am
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Stu, what did your slugging of the bore reveal as far as measurements? I seem to recall the 1889 SR's had a large throat and in order to get decent accuracy the bullet had to fit the throat regardless of what the bore dimensions were. Course I'm suffering from CRS and may be full of hot water here. Cerrosafe is your friend. Get some from brownell's and do a cast of the chamber and throat should give you a better idea of what you are dealing with. Beautiful rifle by the way. Whatever you do, don't sell it to a guy by the name of "Bubba" He'll take the bbl off and make a 22-250 out of it and shoot tree rats. Frank
  

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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #8 - Jan 19th, 2010 at 9:51am
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Hex barrel?
  

Douglas, Ret.
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caithness77
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #9 - Jan 21st, 2010 at 4:53am
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Sorry DoubleD,
It is of course an octagonal barrel, my slip up.

Stu
  
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caithness77
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #10 - Jan 21st, 2010 at 8:08pm
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Hey Frank,
I slugged the bore with a 308 cast bullet. The rifling is actually 3 groove. Slug measures .297" to .304", difference being that it's 3 groove.
Frank, the Cerrosafe is for doing a cast of the chamber right? Have never heard of it before. Will check around here and see what I can find.

Cheers,
Stu
  
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Singleshotlover
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #11 - Jan 22nd, 2010 at 12:46am
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Stuart, cerrosafe is a low temp melting metal. Clean and lighty oil the chamber and plug the first few inches of the barrel after the throat. The cerrosafe melts around 200 degrees and pour it into the chamber. Let cool then using a stiff cleaning rod from the muzzle push out the plug and your cast. After about 1/2 hour the cerrosafe will have stabilized and you can take your measurements. Brownell's here in the states sells it. And its reuseable. From your posted measurements looks like you have a fairly tight bore. and at this point (i'm guessing here)if the previous owner fired 7.5x55 ammo in it you should at least need 7.5x55 cases but not enough info as to their length. Some CBA shooters have used RCBS 165 grain silhouette bullet in rifles like the k-31 and k-11 with good results.
« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2010 at 12:52am by Singleshotlover »  

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waterman
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #12 - Jan 25th, 2010 at 5:30pm
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Before you get carried away with the Cerrosafe, be sure to use modeling clay or chewing gum, etc. to cover the extractor slots and anywhere else the Cerrosafe can migrate.  Plug the bore at a point far enough down bore so that your cast shows all the details of the throat and leade.
  
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Singleshotlover
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Re: Hammerli Martini.
Reply #13 - Jan 29th, 2010 at 1:36am
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Stuart, I'm suprised that the swiss rifles site could not offer the info you needed. With your measurements of .297 and .304 looks like you have a tight 30 caliber bore. My K31 slugs out at .298 and .307. A look at some of the cast bullet association records show a lot of shooters using the RCBS 165 grain silhouette bullet. I have a couple lyman one cavity moulds 31141 and 311291 and both have undersized bore riding noses of .299 and that's on a good day. Frank
  

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