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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Importation of parts gun (Read 13753 times)
DoubleD
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Re: Importation of parts gun
Reply #15 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 7:22pm
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JCHannum wrote on Jan 27th, 2010 at 9:15am:
Thanks for that advice Harry. I don't know if UK/eBay allows shipping of parts outside of the UK. US eBay does not, even wood. I know it is stupid, but that is what the world is coming to. I will take a look.



Ebay may restrict the sale of parts intend to be shipped out the originating country, but they have no authority or means  to stop a lawful shipment. 

  

Douglas, Ret.
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frederick
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Re: Importation of parts gun
Reply #16 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 7:28pm
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Maybe I'be called a "smart ass" but I hope you did not pay over
$50.00 for that "pile". You may better off buying one of those disasters
on a gun auction site. That rifle in the field, followed 70 years later
by M. Ghandi destroyed the decadent British Empire.

Fred

p.s. I once was a suffering owner of a 1960 Jag
  
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DoubleD
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Re: Importation of parts gun
Reply #17 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 7:36pm
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38_Cal wrote on Jan 26th, 2010 at 4:27pm:
If it was a military carbine, the right side would have the maker's mark...and most civilian arms also used the right side for that purpose.  It could still be military...look for proof marks on the barrel's underside forward of the action.  Civilian proof marks will usually be mostly above the wood line.  Photos?

David


David is partially correct.  A British Military 577/450 would be marked on the right. Since .303 Martini is a converted 577/450, a .303 Will bare the original .577/450 markings on the right and the .303 markings on the left. 

There is no "always" rule for commercial Martini Henry patterns.  Commercial or volunteer patterns are more likely to have maker marking or trade name on the left but not always. If the gun was sold to a government then the government name or marks on the right.  This is  a most of the time thing  and not an all the time thing.

Hate to be last post on a page....

That's not a carbine at all. It is a cut down rifle.  I normally always and anally say restore! But in this case  you need the two most difficult part to find to restore; a barrel and fore stock.  Not impossible to find, but it will take a bit to find.

I suggest you offer the barrel and stocks with hardware for sale and use the action for building some sort of sporter. A nice .450 Musket or even .375 2 1/2" Flanged NE  for instance.  Why even a 45/70. 

When you need to find Martini stuff look at the Martini Link list at (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links);  


  

Douglas, Ret.
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JCHannum
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Re: Importation of parts gun
Reply #18 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 8:41pm
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While eBay has no authority to restrict shipping of firearms parts, they will suspend your account if they find you in violation of their rules. It is a PITA, but it serves to discourage some from shipping out of the country.

The gun was a gift, offered as-is. The total investment is the shipping and I made a new aquaintance in the process. I enjoy a challenge and resurrecting this into something functional is the machinist/gunsmith equivalent of doing crossword puzzles, it keeps the creative juices flowing.

Thanks for the collection of links, it will be a great help. I did have a link to the Martini Gallery. It shows several action views, and the makers marks seem to appear on either side of the frame. I was put off by the buffing on the left side. The marks on the right side are very light and were obfuscated by the surface rust. 

I am fairly certain it is a MKII artillery carbine, not a cut down rifle. There are several photos of the artillery carbine in the photo gallery that are identical to this gun. I do not like destroying collectible guns, but this one is so far gone that there is little to work with. Once the metal is cleaned up, all makers will be lost. The pipe wrench marks on the barrel shank have obliterated any marks there. The wood has been sanded and the cartouches are almost invisible. 

The same problems with making the action presentable would be present in making it into a sporting rifle, it is just too rough to warrant a lot of work or expense. I have other actions and projects in the fire that are suitable for making "good" guns from. This would make a good knockabout. That is why I am thinking about something in a smaller caliber.
  

Jim H.
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JCHannum
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Re: Importation of parts gun
Reply #19 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 9:10pm
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I see on further reading of the Martini Gallery that it is converted from a rifle. Would this have been an arsenal conversion?
  

Jim H.
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DoubleD
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Re: Importation of parts gun
Reply #20 - Jan 28th, 2010 at 2:34pm
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That action is not a carbine action. Here is a cabine action.

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Not the bottom front of the action is rounded.

Here is the forestock of a carbine.

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There is some variations to carbine forestock furniture, but all were similar.  

There is a carbine that would resemble what you have.  The MK II carbine was  made by cutting down the Mk II rifle.  The barrel as listed in The Treatise of the British Military Martini was shortened to 1' 9.437".  The fore stock was shortend and the barrel channel opened up. Barrel bands  and fittings were moved back and then enlarged to fit the larger barrel diameter at the new location on the barrel.  The muzzle diameter was also reduced. 

The buttstock was also drilled for lower sling swivel.  If you can post a picture of the front sight  and rear sight it would help.  There were only a little over 38,000 of the MK II carbines made.

  

Douglas, Ret.
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JCHannum
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Re: Importation of parts gun
Reply #21 - Jan 28th, 2010 at 7:51pm
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Here is a photo of the muzzle of the barrel and what there is of the sights. The previous owner thought the barrel had been turned down recently, but it could date to the time of the modification. It is roughly machined. The dovetail is very shallow and the matching dovetail on the sight is also very shallow. It appears that both front and rear sights were also sweated on with soft solder.

You can get an idea of the condition of the wood of the forestock as well.

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By the way, the action is also marked II in addition to the other marking I previously mentioned.
  

Jim H.
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DoubleD
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Re: Importation of parts gun
Reply #22 - Jan 29th, 2010 at 9:56am
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Dove tail is definitely Bubba work.  The MkII Carbine sights were soldered The muzzle reduction did on the MK II Carbine was  blended.   

Rear sight looks right.   

With lots of work the gun looks very restorable.  I am pretty sure I have a coorect front sight, I just can't find it right now.

  

Douglas, Ret.
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JCHannum
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Re: Importation of parts gun
Reply #23 - Jan 29th, 2010 at 11:51am
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Thanks for the information. It is a question of when restoration becomes reconstruction, sort of like George Washington's hatchet. The original is in a museum, the handle has been replaced six times and the head twice.

By the time the wood is replaced, or enough spliced in to repair the missing or damaged parts, little of the original will remain. The metal is in poor shape, rusted, worn and damaged and a few pieces are missing. To return it to original condition would require replacement or welding and remachining. 

Any markings on the metal or wood would have to be restamped as almost all would be lost if the above work were to be done. 

With that in mind, I intend to stick with my plans to make it into a shootable gun, somewhat along the lines of the original carbine. If anyone is interested in any of the bits & pieces, let me know and maybe we can arrange a swap of some sort.
  

Jim H.
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DoubleD
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Re: Importation of parts gun
Reply #24 - Jan 29th, 2010 at 10:53pm
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I think that is a good plan...send me the rusty parts.
  

Douglas, Ret.
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