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Nero
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Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Jan 14th, 2010 at 4:29am
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Talking to a friend in the UK on the telephone over Christmas and he tells me that any rifle that will take a charger clip and a thumb cut out in the action is now being banned as a Military import into the States.
This includes all commercial built rifles including the Magnum square bridge Mausers.
Is this correct?
« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2010 at 4:35am by Nero »  
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DoubleD
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #1 - Jan 14th, 2010 at 10:59am
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Not that I heard.   

  

Douglas, Ret.
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stebbinsgr
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #2 - Jan 14th, 2010 at 11:15am
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News to me..................you might email the folks at AIM Surplus.  They sell mausers (and other rifles) in Ohio.

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They would know or their distributor would have the info.  I truly don't believe it.
  
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DoubleD
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #3 - Jan 15th, 2010 at 1:19pm
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The only right answer will come from ATF Imports branch. Write them a letter and ask. They will respond promptly. 

Never rely on a business or ATF Field Agent for the correct answer. They may be right, but often not.
  

Douglas, Ret.
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Nero
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #4 - Jan 19th, 2010 at 9:07pm
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Talking to another gun smith friend in NZ about wedding band barrels among other things, he told me that a friend of his who makes high quality and high priced Mauser actioned rifles from stainless steel cannot get an import license to send to customers in the States. 
This is all second hand info of course but I have no reason to doubt it.
As for getting anything out of the States these days just forget it.
I wanted fifty empty 218 Bee brass cases from Sinclairs some time ago and was told it would take two to three months to get an export license at a cost of I think about $160.00. 
Instead after a hunt around I found locally some once fired 25-20 cases to make into 218 Bee.
Regards. 
     
« Last Edit: Jan 19th, 2010 at 9:25pm by Nero »  
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209jones
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #5 - Jan 20th, 2010 at 2:05am
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to add to nero's last comment,I tried getting a Patternmaster choke from Cabela's, they won't ship chokes to Canada. Their styore in Winnipeg, has to physically drive to the border to pick them up, along with numerous other gun related pcs that apparently now require special export permits. Patternmaster will, Cabelas won't. Basspro will.
Are we really sure we need some of the geniuses we both have in our employ?
  
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Shaughn
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #6 - Jan 20th, 2010 at 7:20pm
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The US has almost fully implemented the regulations under both ITAR and CETAR and it basically comes down to any product, device or part thereof that can be readily converted to or has a military application is subject to Import or Export permits and Export restrictions, not including countries already banned from receiving military technologies.

Several Companies have spent the money and time to get Export permits allowing them to ship internationally, others due to the limited market donot and some companies in part due either to confusion or ignorance of the regulations in place are continuing to ship internationally.

In addition the US is now enforcing regulations, that make it illegal for any foreign national to be in possession of ammunition and or components while in the United States, unless they are their for a hunting trip (hunting license for a valid season and a Form 6 approval for an imported firearm), competition (invitation and proof of registration and a Form 6 for an imported firearm) or as a duly authorised member of their embassy or in the capacity as a member of a law enforcement agency on official duties.

At one time Canada, was exempt from most of the restrictions, but security issues and worsening relations with Canada's Government of the time (Liberal = Chretien) led to the elimination of the exemption and now getting most anything firearm related from the US can be time consuming and expensive.

Add to it that there is now only 2 (IIRC) authorized/recognized  Brokers for the Western part of Canada and it becomes, even more interesting.

Then we have the UN in all it's incompetent glory trying to implement a universal small arms treaty and you will find acquiring parts and components internationally to be just as hard.


Climbing off my soap box Smiley
  
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DoubleD
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #7 - Jan 20th, 2010 at 9:02pm
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Shaughn

You need to offer citations for you claims, because they sure are not supportted by law.

For instance you say:

Quote:
The US has almost fully implemented the regulations under both ITAR and CETAR and it basically comes down to any product, device or part thereof that can be readily converted to or has a military application is subject to Import or Export permits and Export restrictions, not including countries already banned from receiving military technologies.


ITAR says:

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§ 120.3 Policy on designating and determining defense articles and services.
An article or service may be designated or determined in the future to be a defense article (see §120.6) or defense service (see §120.9) if it:
(a) Is specifically designed, developed, configured, adapted, or modified for a military application, and
(i) Does not have predominant civil applications, and
(ii) Does not have performance equivalent (defined by form, fit and function) to those of an article or service used for civil applications.

Not what you said at all.



  

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DoubleD
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #8 - Jan 20th, 2010 at 9:04pm
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You say:
Quote:
In addition the US is now enforcing regulations, that make it illegal for any foreign national to be in possession of ammunition and or components while in the United States, unless they are their for a hunting trip (hunting license for a valid season and a Form 6 approval for an imported firearm), competition (invitation and proof of registration and a Form 6 for an imported firearm) or as a duly authorised member of their embassy or in the capacity as a member of a law enforcement agency on official duties.


What you quote is the provision for a non resident alien to bring a gun into the U.S.

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§ 478.120 Firearms or ammunition imported
by or for a nonimmigrant alien.
(a) Any nonimmigrant alien who completes
an ATF Form 6 to import firearms or
ammunition into the United States, or any
licensee who completes an ATF Form 6 to
import firearms or ammunition for a nonimmigrant
alien, must attach applicable
documentation to the Form 6 (e.g., a hunting
license or permit lawfully issued in the
United States; waiver) establishing the
nonimmigrant alien falls within an exception
to or has obtained a waiver from the
nonimmigrant alien prohibition.
(b) Nonimmigrant aliens importing or
bringing firearms or ammunition into the
United States must provide the United
States Customs Service with applicable
documentation (e.g., a hunting license or
permit lawfully issued in the United States;
waiver) establishing the nonimmigrant
alien falls within an exception to or has
obtained a waiver from the nonimmigrant
alien prohibition before the firearm or ammunition
may be imported. This provision
applies in all cases, whether or not a Form
6 is needed to bring the firearms or ammunition
into the United States.

Since we are only allowed 2000 character per post i am making multiple post in responses
  

Douglas, Ret.
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DoubleD
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #9 - Jan 20th, 2010 at 9:43pm
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(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) contains the GCA68 and if use the find function and look up the word alien you will find numerous referfences to the procedures allowed.  Specifically you find that Resident Aliens lresiding in the U.S may purchase firearms and ammunition. 

ATF has always said Military arms converted to Sporting Arms cannot be imported.  Military/Government owned arms must be complete in original configuration and imported by a licensed importer only.   A good example of this is a BSA .310 Australian Cadet. They now must be imported by a licensed Importer.  The Sportco Cadet does not qualify for importation as it is former government not in its orignal form.   

A sporting rifle made from a military action-mauser or what ever is not allowed.  The Rife must be  complete original and imported by registered importer.

A commercial Masuer action should be allowed for importation. Submit and ATF 6 with pictures of commercial markings and appeal if denied.

There is  half a dozen various sections in the GCA explaining--Find Military.
  

Douglas, Ret.
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Shaughn
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #10 - Jan 20th, 2010 at 10:19pm
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I. POSSESSION OR RECEIPT OF A FIREARM OR AMMUNITION BY A PROHIBITED PERSON:
18 USC § 922(g). Punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment. Pursuant to 18 USC § 924(e), may receive minimum sentence of 15 years without parole if offender has 3 or more prior convictions for a felony crime of violence (e.g., burglary, arson, extortion, assault) and/or drug trafficking felony.

Elements

   A. Knowing possession or receipt of a firearm or ammunition;
   B. By a subject who falls within one of the following categories:

       Felon - (Additionally, persons awaiting trial on felony charges are prohibited from receiving firearms. See 18 USC § 922(n));
       Drug user or addict - Inference of current use may be shown by evidence of recent use or possession or pattern of use or possession that reasonably covers the present time (e.g., positive drug test; conviction for use or possession within past year.);

       Alien - Includes illegal aliens and non-immigrant aliens. This provision does not prohibit an alien with a "green card" from possessing guns or ammunition. NOTE: certain exceptions in 18 USC § 922(y);

Apologies, I forgot about the green card exception.



Further down in first quoted page read 

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120.3

b) Is specifically designed, developed, configured, adapted, or modified for a military application, and has significant military or intelligence applicability such that control under this chapter is necessary.

ATF FAQ

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« Last Edit: Jan 20th, 2010 at 10:34pm by »  
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DoubleD
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #11 - Jan 21st, 2010 at 12:57am
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The section 9229(g)you pulled out doesn't say foreign nationals can't possess, it says illegal and unlawful aliens and person with non immigrant visas can't "to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce."

The problem with this is you have to also look at exemptions sections and that's where Diplomats, foreign Law Officers, Hunters, Competitve shooter and a few others, including resident aliens are granted permission to possess.

This section 120.3

b) Is specifically designed, developed, configured, adapted, or modified for a military application, and has significant military or intelligence applicability such that control under this chapter is necessary.

does not say:

  any product, device or part thereof that can be readily converted to or has a military application is subject to Import or Export permits.

Actually you cut out the civil application exception section  120.3

During the majority of my 19 year career as a Customs Officer, Arms Export/Import control was my speciality.  I can tell you that the laws in the area are complex and convoluted.  You have to read very carefully and you still might not be right.

There is more misinformation and misunderstanding on this subject and its real easy to understand why.  These laws are a mess.    The Majority of the actions I took were because people did not understand the law.  Fortunately the law also allowed me to process the offense as a civil penalty-less even than a traffic ticket and not a criminal action.
  

Douglas, Ret.
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209jones
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #12 - Jan 21st, 2010 at 1:54am
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That must have been a part of a worldwide job creation program sponsored thru the UN or something like it--just think of the $ signs rolling around the various law offices everywhere, I'll bet they liked that. If a customs officer can't  manage to figure it out---it must be written properly. I'm sure it had a practical purpose when it was concieved, just got lost in committees and pork barrels and etc.  Wink
  
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DoubleD
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Re: Mauser rifles now a banned import into the states?
Reply #13 - Jan 21st, 2010 at 10:11am
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The UN wasn't in the Picture when GCA 68 and ITAR were written.  Although the ITAR of late is influenced  by the OAS which is heavily influenced by Canada and the UN.

GCA is a domestic law and not as affected by external influences. 

Customs gets  every other Agencies laws dumped on them for enforcement at the border.  Customs authorities applies only at  or related to the border.  When I retired, they they were responsible for enforcing 600 laws for 60 different agencies.  How can one person know all that. 
  

Douglas, Ret.
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