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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it? (Read 13258 times)
418Steve
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Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Dec 29th, 2009 at 7:11pm
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I have a Lyman 2A  F for a Favorite,--probably overpaid for it a while ago.  Sad
 Anyone have some thoughts if I should sell it for a loss, or buy a Favorite to match the sight and just go shooting with it?  Would the sight add to the value of the Favorite?  I'd probably keep the gun and sight at that stage but don't want to be upside down twice over (if you know what I mean)
I'd need to buy one made in 1907 or later--is there a quick guide of serial # available that would help me identify a Favorite made in 1907 or later?

Steve
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #1 - Dec 29th, 2009 at 9:45pm
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That's a no brainer. Buy the Favorite. Sight will make the gun worth more. The surest way I know to get a Favroite made after 1907 is to by a 1915 Favorite. They are so marked on the tang. Frame is a little heavier on these as I recall. That reminds me, I have some tang sights for Favorites that I need to install on guns I already have and then take the time to sight them in after the weather gets warm this spring.
  
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418Steve
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #2 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 11:56am
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Thanks Slumlord
Might  try to sell the sight one more time--have my eye on bullseye pistol too good to pass up that the sight could help to fund.

PS--I have my 418 set up with the sight from Moodyholler now and the 48L reciever sight it has always had (that may have been a special order), complete with a 17A front sight.  So, now it has both sights from a 417 Walnut hill and the rear sight from a 418.
Now I need to score a Lyman 104 patridge front sight to bring it back to original configuration of a 418 as well.
If you know of anyone that wants to part with a Lyman 104 let me know (I've already contacted the 3 sight collectors on the Lyman web site--no luck yet)



  
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toolmkr
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #3 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 12:06pm
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418Steve, Don't believe the 418 or 418 1/2 was usually drilled at factory for any receiver sight (although Stevens would do almost anything at extra price). I believe you mean to say Lyman #144 which was standard on the 418. toolmkr
  
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418Steve
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #4 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 5:05pm
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Yes, we're both right,kind of--my 418 DOES have a 48L reciever sight.  It's the Lyman 144 I bought from Moodyholler that I also have on it now, rather than take the 48L off it and plug the holes.   
If you are interested, there is a bit of a story here though some of my memory is a little fuzzy--this was my dad's gun and he passed away about 7 years ago so I can't confirm any more than this (so far);
I remeber shooting it with him as far back as @ 1957 to 1958.  I am pretty sure he bought it used from the rifle club he (and then later that I also) belonged to.  I think he told me it was a club owned gun, though possibly he bought it from another member--this would have been about 1948 to 1950 or so, about when he joined the club just after WWII and getting out of the Army.  I can remember him saying the front sight also had inserts available too, as it has the Lyman 17A front sight.  The std. 418 Lyman 104 patridge front sight the reference books say it should have of course would have no inserts.  So, I THINK that the club special ordered this gun and probably others like it with the sights of a 417 to save money when times were tough in the 30's to early 40s, rather than buy the more upscale 417 Walnut Hill as a club gun.  But unless I can track down club records from 60 to 70 years ago I may never know, as John C. the Savage / Stevens historian says all the Stevens records were destroyed in a fire long ago.  So, I'll be making contact with the club over the next month or so and see what they can turn up for me.  The club is still alive and well, and only about an hour drive from where I live now.  I'll take some pics of the gun and post them by tomorrow--it will have the 48L  reciever sight on it it has always had, and the 144 tang sight I bought from Moodyholler.  Don't ask me why I want to have both the current sights and the period correct sights--not really sure myself!
  
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Redwing
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #5 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 5:29pm
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On my "86"...  Note the folding rear sight.. Click on the pic for a full view

Ed.....
« Last Edit: Dec 30th, 2009 at 5:35pm by Redwing »  
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418Steve
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #6 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 9:22pm
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Yes, that looks to be the same as the Lyman 2A "F" that I will probably be selling--still gotta make up my mind---probably tomorrow.

The Lyman 144  tang sight I have is basically the same sight with click adjustable windage and elevation
  
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418Steve
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Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #7 - Dec 31st, 2009 at 9:42am
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Toolmkr and Redwing
Here's a pic of my 418 with the Lyman 48L it's always had and the Lymnan 144 I just added a few wks ago.  Front is a Lyman 17A H, now just looking for a Lyman 104 front.
  
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418Steve
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #8 - Dec 31st, 2009 at 9:47am
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Sorry, no pics attached, still new to this forum and my pics are too large a file
I'll figure something out and post them when I get a chance

Steve

  
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418Steve
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #9 - Dec 31st, 2009 at 10:00am
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Hope these pics work!
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slumlord44
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #10 - Jan 1st, 2010 at 12:01pm
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Realy nice interesting Stevens. Always like to see the scarce ones. I hardly ever see a 418. I have a 418 and 418 1/2. One is .22 and the other is .25. The .22 is extremely accurate. Especialy for a smaller rifle.
  
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418Steve
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #11 - Jan 2nd, 2010 at 4:22pm
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Slumlord--I've never seen another 418 in person even at dozens of gun show. Saw what I think was one on Gunbroker earlier this year, but the guy didn't know what it was either--it had a spacer under the buttplate and had a grip cap installed, but the rest looked like a 418.
Matter of fact, I've brought this gun to a bunch of shows and had supposed Stevens guru's tell me its a Favorite with aftermarket wood and the bottom tang is bent to fit the pistol grip--also had people tell me it's a 416 thats been altered, and more as well.
FYI--I have the Lyman 2A F on eBay now to use it to fund and score the Lyman 104 patridge front sight for it.  Maybe a little left over for that bullseye pistol too!
  
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418Steve
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #12 - Jan 2nd, 2010 at 4:30pm
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PS--this one is accurate too!
I can get 1 hole 5/16" to 3/8" (all 3 just touching) groups as 50' rested on bags with these sights with CCI SV ammo and smaller still with SK Jagd or Wolf Std ammo.  IF I could do my part off hand they would all be 10's!  It still amazes me what this old gun and a Savage 99 from 1953 I had can do compared to new bolt guns.  My Savage would put 3 shots in to .70" at 100 yds with a 3x9 scope with factory Federal ammo--(saved the target pics on that one!)
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #13 - Jan 2nd, 2010 at 7:42pm
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418 Steve
I believe the one you saw with the spacer and the grip cap was on GunsAmericia. It is one of the ones I have now. Bought it by making him an offer. He had it listed as a 44 as I recall. Removed the spacer and grip cap and filled the hole for the grip cap. Metal had a mild case of the rusty's but cleaned up fair. Bore is pristine and had the Lyman 144 Tang sight and Lyman 17A front sight. Stumbled on the other one in .25 Stevens at a gun show before the first one arrived. The .25 had the correct Lyman #2 and I added a period Lyman 17A front sight. The .25 had realy good metal and wood. Guy did not know what it was either. These are the only two I have ever seen.
  
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418Steve
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #14 - Jan 2nd, 2010 at 8:26pm
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Ah--you're the one who got it! I think it was asking about $600+ if I remember right.
Yes, I think it was Guns America now that you mention it.  I think he was asking $600+ if I remember (DONT TELL ME what you paid--don't want to get sick!!)
I think he said it also had a groove under the buttplate, and didn't know what it was for if we're talking the same gun.  FYI, I can tell you I think--that club I used to belong to with my dad had some club rifles in a rack, and they used to cut a groove in the stock under the buttplate and run a steel rod through it on all the guns and lock the rod with a hasp and padlock at the end. Kept em from growing legs, you know! You can fill the groove or shorten the buttstock, but you might have to fine tune the edges of the buttplate down to fit the shorter stock
Steve
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #15 - Jan 2nd, 2010 at 11:33pm
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No grove under the butplate. Think it was $600 shipped. I figured the sight was worth $300+ so I thought the deal was ok even though the metal was not the best. Case on frame was not bad but the exterior of the barrel had some issues.
  
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418Steve
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #16 - Jan 3rd, 2010 at 8:29am
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Mmmmm--looks like it might have been a different gun than the one I remember

Good luck with it, not many around for sure!
  
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418Steve
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Picture needed of Lyman 104 front sight
Reply #17 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 12:41pm
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Sorry to beat a dead horse on this guys, but I could use a pic of this front sight if anyone has a Stevens 418 Walnut Hill Jr. like mine.
I know its a patridge style, but can't find any pics of it in any reference books.  It's in the Stevens literature I have , but the pics of the front of the barrel and sight are fuzzy.  It looks like it is low at the front near the muzzle and slopes up towards the back, but don't know if it is a straight line or a curved arch slope.
I also don't know if it was ever marked "Lyman" or "104" so trying to descibe it or have a pic will help when contacting a few sight collectors.

Thanks in advance,
Steve
  
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toolmkr
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #18 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 1:30pm
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I've seen 3 different 418's and none of them had anything other than a globe sight. I believe any one who used them for target shooting would change the front sight from the orginal. I don't think I've ever seen a pic. of a 104. Hope someone will supply a picture for us. toolmkr
  
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418Steve
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #19 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 2:11pm
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Thanks Toolmkr--I agree--that's why mine got changed out for sure

Any pics or clear copies of any literature will help a lot

Not ready to give up yet--on a mission I guess!

Thanks everyone if you can help
  
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dennismc
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #20 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 4:11pm
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Steve,

Something in the "for what it's worth" category...

I own several Stevens 418 rifles in 22 LR caliber and they came to me with a variety of sights.  Three of them came with a Lyman No. 3 gold bead front sight; two of those had a Lyman No. 144 tang sight and the other a Lyman No. 2A tang sight.  Another came with a Lyman No. 3 ivory bead front and No. 2A tang sight.  Yet another came with a King No. 65 reflector bead front sight.  

From what I have seen, the Lyman gold bead front sight was the most popular factory option.  I am not sure there is such a thing as a Lyman No. 104...at least I have never seen one mentioned anywhere but here.  Stroebel's sight book mentions a "Stevens No. 104 Patridge Front Sight" as being standard for the Stevens 418 target rifles, but all the Stevens catalogs I have access to call it a "Patridge-type" sight, without specifying a number.

The only way I know to differentiate between the 418 and 418 1/2 are the sights and the caliber.  Since you already have somewhat of an oddball rifle with both a receiver sight and a tang sight (which is not "right" for a Stevens 418), if I were you, I would just leave the Lyman No. 17 on the front and enjoy shooting it.

Dennis
  
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toolmkr
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #21 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 4:25pm
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The 418 1/2 is std. with Lyman 1A and Lyman gold bead front, any 418 could pass for a 418 1/2 by changing sights (418 1/2 appears to be rare, more so than the 418, but???) The only sure way to know a 418 1/2 is if it's in .22WRF or .25 Stevens. My opinion only. toolmkr
  
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418Steve
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #22 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 4:46pm
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Thanks, you confirmed what I thought.  Mine is 22LR so could have been either, but I have the Lyman 144 rear which I like with the click adj. for elev. and windage, so thought I'd try and find the 104 front. It's even possible it was special ordered with the 17A HI front it h!as (in addition to the 48L rear), but may never know for sure as Stevens records seem to be gone, and don't know if I can track it down thru the club it was bought through.
Sorry if I'm getting long winded on this---"on a mission" on this I guess and didn't mean to write a novel, but I've found you never know what turns up for info!
Thanks--always willing to listen
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Sell the sight or buy a Favorite to go with it?
Reply #23 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 7:53pm
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Toolmkr is dead on according to my references. My 418 1/2 is in .25 Stevens RF and has the Lyman 2A tang sight. If they are in .22, the sights are the only way to tell for sure and they are easily changed. As I stated earlier, you could prety much special order any sight that was available at the time. Makes Stevens collecting interesting. Maybe that is why I like them so much.
  
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