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Normal Topic Windage adjustment on Rams at 500 meters (Read 5145 times)
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Windage adjustment on Rams at 500 meters
Dec 28th, 2009 at 8:38pm
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When I used to shoot a lot of BPCS friend told me he used different mechanical windage zero's on Rams depending on the way they were facing, Left or right.  This with aperture sights .  Sounded right and he is a very good shooter but had to prove it to myself.

I took a 10 M Walther Air rifle with Aperture sights front and rear.  The gun bench rest indoors will put all pellets in a single hole at 10 meters, assumed no weather or rifle related error.

Took the NRA scaled 10 M Silhouette target. It has 10 Chickens 10 Pigs 10 Turkeys and 10 Rams, 4 lines of 10.  First 5 of each critter are right facing next 5 are left facing just like in a outdoor match.  Animals are scaled so you see the same sight picture at 10 meters you see outdoors.

Zeroed the rifle on the regular bullseye 10 meter Air gun round target before going to the Silhouette target  Test was shooting 5 shot groups bench rest on each of the 40 critters no sight change

Chickens the hole is nice and centered. Pigs and Turkeys too. Rams there was a very obvious bias toward the head,  Right facing rams had the hole right of center.  Left facing rams had the hole left of center.  It's a small amount to measure but scaling the total difference was about 3 moa. That's 1 1/2 left and 1 1/2 right for 3 moa total  I could see no difference in elevation right or left facing.

What we surmised is the aperture sight centers mass. On rams and rams only there is more mass toward the head of the animal and accordingly the sight found center of what it saw not the center of the total width of the animal.

When shooting in matches moving to the next bank facing the opposite direction, Adjusted my windage 1 graduation away from the Head on my tang sight which equates to 1 1/2 moa   You might say odds of  a hit are better if you are zeroed with a bias toward the head.  But I prefer everything to be centered up.  Hit a high horn shot it's just luck better to strike center

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Re: Windage adjustment on Rams at 500 meters
Reply #1 - Dec 29th, 2009 at 7:22pm
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Boats,  I don't think you are imagining things.  I have read exactly the same thing on one of the other BPCR forums.  Makes perfectly good sense to me using aperture sights.  One minute windage adjustment away from the head of the ram is the way to fly.       Tim
  
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Re: Windage adjustment on Rams at 500 meters
Reply #2 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 8:03am
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One could adapt the peep sight gizmo from the match M1/M14 rear sight - with the 1/2 click adjustment by rotating the sight - except do it from side to side instead of up and down.   Wink
  

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Re: Windage adjustment on Rams at 500 meters
Reply #3 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 10:41am
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Interesting.  I suspect something similar happens with the turkeys.

Careful experimentation such as you did leads to better knowledge.

Paul
  
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Re: Windage adjustment on Rams at 500 meters
Reply #4 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 12:09pm
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OK, Here’s another thick-headed Dutchman that can’t figure this out.. 

In my minds eye, point of aim and point of impact are all relevant, conditional to the obvious !!! What does the image (bird, bullseye, cow, etc) have anything to do with it and as far as shooting at a miniature target in the basement, won’t the real-world elements (drift, windage, temp/humidity) affect the shot more ??? Perhaps the front aperture is too large to reduce the poa..  

Please don’t get pissed, I’m sure there are some others out there that also need to know..

Thanks: 

Ed…..

  
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Re: Windage adjustment on Rams at 500 meters
Reply #5 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 12:17pm
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Ed, you know my last name, so I'm as thick headed a Deutcher as you!  What I think, in my simple-minded explanation of what I am reading, is that any time you are trying to hit anything that is not round, you can increase the effective size of your effective target by carefully analyzing the center of area so you have as much available target to hit around the center of aim as possible... so the bullet doesn't "leak off" into the ozone somewhere.  Maybe I'm oversimplifying all the high-falootin' ideas here, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it!!  Wink

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Re: Windage adjustment on Rams at 500 meters
Reply #6 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 12:58pm
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Thanks Charlie !!!

Make’s sense to me now.. Perhaps a “Pin” sight would be more in order than the aperture in the front..  I believe Ned Roberts spoke of the “old-time” sharpshooters using the course hair of a Hog to finite their front sight system.. 

Heck, I’m lucky to see the end of the barrel anymore…   Shocked

Ed….


  
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Re: Windage adjustment on Rams at 500 meters
Reply #7 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 2:06pm
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Well I laid out what I heard and what I found with one simple test nothing definitive.  What I think is another thing.  Here it is.

The Aperture is not smart, all it does is take whatever it sees and naturally wants to center it with a nice border of white around the outside.  If it sees a irregular mass it sort of averages to favor the center of mass. On rams the mass is slanted one way or the other according to which way they face.

Now here is another puzzle. Club match we are shooting, the Ram Bash ,with 500 meter rams hung at 200 yards 40 shots offhand. My largest aperture is way smaller than the Ram, no light around point of impact at all.  Damm thing looks as big as a cow at 200 and ought to be impossible to miss. But it's real hard to hit it 40 times in a row, far as I know only one guy has ever done it.

In practice  sessions I tried a post front sight but ended up shooting the match with the aperture front sight. I pick a spot on the rams body and break my shots when the center of the aperture comes across that spot. 

You would thing the post would be better and it could be just because I am partial to Arpetures, but results are much better than with the post.  I know the old guys used pin heads but could have been they were not so old after all and could focus a small pin head front sight. My Senior Citizen eyes can't, but can get a real sharp picture out of an aperture when I stop down the rear.

One day I am going to give the post and aperture a good side by side test on the hanging 200 yard rams.  Also going to have a good look at some of the other guys front sights next match to see what they use.

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Re: Windage adjustment on Rams at 500 meters
Reply #8 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 2:11pm
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Redwing, 

On the basement, idea was to issolate the varables to see what the optical error was. Not testing anything else but the way the sight sees the target.

No doubt envornmential conditons affect the bullet much more in acutal match.  However if your sights are centered up nice your odds of a strike are higher, much higher.   

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Re: Windage adjustment on Rams at 500 meters
Reply #9 - Dec 30th, 2009 at 2:49pm
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boats !!!

Thanks to you and Froggie for clearing that up..  On my favorite old M/L, I made a small cut in the bottom of the aperture orifice to facilitate a theoretical vertical plane. I used a Jewelers Saw and cut it about .125” deep.. This improved my accuracy two-fold.. I also know others who fit cross-wires on them as to get the benefit of the aperture.. 

Thanks again !!!

Ed….


  
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