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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages (Read 27548 times)
40_Rod
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #30 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 8:19am
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That liquor sounds way too good for leadball. He once sent me to the store for bourbon and told me not to pay more that $10.00 for the quart! I was surprised but went to the store anyway. It was there right next to the paint thinner. 

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40_Rod
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #31 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 9:33am
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On the subject of bullets. This is not like deer hunting where you go buy a Remington rifle and a box of bullets and go. These rifles are all individuals, a bullet, powder, lube combination may work in one rifle and perform badly in another rifle just like it. You have asked for bullets but we don’t know the size of your bore / groove diameter, the twist of the barrel, or what kind of throat is in your rifle. All of these will have to be taken in to account to get the rifle to shoot to its full potential, that and a lot of shooting and tinkering.

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38_Cal
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #32 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 11:02am
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What 40 Rod said...I'm on the fifth bullet mould for my .30/32-20.  A couple of them have been pretty good, a couple were very much not up to expectations.  If I have to change any major component (powder, for instance) I may end up with a different mould to get back to the accuracy level I want...assuming that I remember how to shoot from one range session to another!   Roll Eyes   

David Kaiser
Montezuma, IA
  

David Kaiser
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leadball
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #33 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 11:25am
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Seriously guys, maybe set_trigger hasn't considered all these questions like length of throat, bore & groove and diameter, twist of rifling, and etc, we know without these figures we're just peeing in the wind.  I consider myself lucky and a little embarrassed to say I have without counting about ten different 32 moulds and I've also been swaging bullets for sometime, looking for the perfect bullet that does not exist.    leadball
  
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Set_Trigger
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #34 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 9:25pm
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leadball,
I'm in the Northern Mountains of PA, I'm so far back in the hills I'm lucky to have a phone line. Now how far do I have to drive that hooch, maybe we could meet half way  Wink.  I'm not looking for "perfect" bullets, would be happy to have some of the bullets you shoot in the events, if there good enough for you there good enough for me. 

I posted a while back that I have a B. W. Darr Ruger # 1 in 32-40, it's the one that has 7 grooves.

I have tried and tried to get this gun to shoot but the best groups I can get is 1.5" at 100 yds. I've tried three different store bought cast bullets of 160, 180, and 205 Gr. all .321.  These were not listed as Match bullets but were the only ones I could find, again, no matter what bullet or powder I use it's always about the same, 1.5". Maybe not all that bad for store bought bullets but I would never waste my time shooting them in a match, I was hopping for something better.

I don't think it's me or a gun problem because I can constantly shoot 1/2 inch, and sometimes just under 1/2" 5 shot groups at 100 yds with Speer and Hornady 170 Gr. FN jacked hunting bullets. I was thinking that maybe the cast bullets are at fault or maybe I should get a different barrel chambered for one of the short 32's. That's why I am asking so many questions about bullets and short 32's.

The barrel specs are 7 groove, 1/16, .319, 30" Octagon.

I look at the scores that are posted every once in awhile and from what I see shooting 1.5" groups would not be very completive, most seen to be shooting about .750 or less at 100 yds. 
  S T
  
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RSW
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #35 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 10:51pm
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Set_Trigger
1.5 inch for 5 shots at a 100 yards might be good results. Do you set out wind flags when you shoot, use a spotting scope to keep track of mirage and shot placement, shoot in the same wind condition for each shot or just hold center and blaze away for 5 shots? Do you keep records of your shooting sessions? What powder and charge were you using, primer, cartridge case, fixed or breech seated? What bullet alloy were you using, what lube, did you get any leading? All those and your shooting technique make a huge difference in rifle performance. I’m not trying to be critical, this is not a simple shooting game. Perfect bullets (or as near to it as you can get) are a major component. The choice of cartridge case is important but so are the other factors I stated.

You mentioned you can shoot 1/2 inch, 5-shot groups at 100 yard using jacketed bullets. Compared to cast bullet 32-40’s your jacketed stuff is like shooting down a string. If you aren’t closely watching conditions, a gentle breeze can move your 32 cal bullets around enough to open up a an otherwise good group to 1.5 inches. This brings me back to my initial post, the bullet. I have helped a few shooters get started by casting some bullets for them but a 100 is a lot of extra casting, a 1,000 is pretty much a season’s worth for me also and I shoot three different schuetzens. You might try posting in For Sale/Trade that you want to purchase 1,000 (or number of your choice) nearly match-grade cast and lubed bullets. With a phone conversation or a few emails, you can likely determine if any takers are worth considering to fill your order.
Good luck and I hope you find a source of good bullets.
  

Randy W
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westerner
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #36 - Sep 24th, 2009 at 12:09am
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S T,  Your best hope for aquiring cast bullets without casting them yourself is to take your rifle and gear to the matches and bum bullets till you find the ones that work. Once that is accomplished you can put those shmoozing skills of yours to work on your prospective bullet caster.
Having a quart or two of that homemade hooch handy may be a big help.  Good luck.  Smiley

     Joe.
  

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40_Rod
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #37 - Sep 24th, 2009 at 8:38am
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The biggest problem that I can see is your using store bought bullets. Pre-cast bullets come in basically in two forms. The first are hard usually Lyman #1 or linotype both are too hard. I am going to go out on a limb here and tell you nothing good happens when you add antimony to your alloy in schuetzen. The second set of bullets are cast of pure lead on 40:1 lead tin mix these are meant for BPCR and are usually found in the .40 - .45 cal range. 
  For a Darr barrel you want somewhere in the 25:1 to 30:1 lead to tin alloy. Unless someone has damaged the barrel that rifle should be capable of shooting min of angle or better.

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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #38 - Sep 24th, 2009 at 9:10am
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Like this.  Wink



             Joe.
  

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stebbinsgr
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartridges
Reply #39 - Oct 7th, 2009 at 3:07pm
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You might try Montana Precision Swaging for cast lead bullets.  They have a 32 40 slug that is a Pope style bullet.  The bullets come lubed with SPG lubricant.  I have fired these out of a Stevens-Pope .32-40 with black powder both muzzle loaded and breech loaded.  They will work until you learn how to cast your own. Not sure what the hardness is for these bullets.  20:1 25: or 30:1 lead bullets is what you really want.  Lead bullets DO NOT wear out a barrel.  Harry Pope fired 125,000 bullets (or about 1.75 tons of lead) thru his favorite rifle (barrel #150).  Ray M. Smith had that rifle given to him by the Pope family and it still holds a tight group - 1 MOA.

.32-40 Bullet
CB-32-200FN   .32-40  200 grains Sized .323 Flat Nose   $15.25/50

Montana Precision Swaging, Inc.
P.O. Box 4746
Butte, Montana 59702-4746

Phone: (406) 494-0600
E-mail: MtPrecSwaging@bigskyhsd.com

Gary
Ft Wayne, IN
  
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Set_Trigger
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #40 - Oct 8th, 2009 at 9:55pm
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Thanks Gary,
The info is very helpful. I'll look up there web site. I notice you said they have .323 in 32-40, I think I need .321 but not sure. 
Anyway your info is a big help and I'll check it out. 
Thanks again.
  S T
  
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38_Cal
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #41 - Oct 9th, 2009 at 12:07am
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I use bullets run through a .312" sizer in my .308" barrel...the sizer barely touches the base band on my modified Lyman (formerly gas checked) mold, and I'm mostly using it as a grease pump.  The rule of thumb is to use a bullet about .001" to .003" larger than the groove diameter of your barrel, when working with soft lead.  Try the larger bullets, they may work quite well...especially if the throat of your barrel is a bit on the big side.

David Kaiser
Montezuma, IA
  

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Set_Trigger
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #42 - Oct 9th, 2009 at 12:29am
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Thanks Dave,
I tried some .321's from Western Bullet Co., did not work very well, they looked like the blocks were apart a bit when they were cast, they did not look good at all but I shot them anyway. I'll give the .323's a try.
  S T
  
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ole7groove
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #43 - Oct 9th, 2009 at 11:44am
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Set Trigger

A good starting load for your Darr barrel is 14.2 grains 4227, WWLR primer, if using a flat nose bullet do not exceed 1.00" in length,.322/323 diameter (as cast), cast 1 part tin to 19 parts lead (1/20) alloy, breech seat .050". Any of the popular bullet lubes will work well. Start at 100 yards to refine your your powder charge. By all means use some sort of wind flags, preferably 3. Don't be anxious to make any changes to the load, each single shot rifle seems to have its own personality, and may need to be held with more or less shoulder pressure, more or less pressure on the pistol grip, etc. 
Other problems may be that the barrel is very badly leaded or the throat or the muzzle crown has been damaged. A damaged muzzle will usually reveal itself after 10 to 15 shots by a uneven powder star on the face of the muzzle.  Undecided
Regards, B.W.Darr
  
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Set_Trigger
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #44 - Oct 9th, 2009 at 10:04pm
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Hi Mr. Darr.
It's an honor and a privilege to be able to write to you. I will try to do everything exactly as you recommended. I'm sure it's not a gun problem but have been having a problem getting good lead bullets. I've bore scoped the barrel and it's as perfect as one can be, no leading and no jacket fouling. 

I've been shooting .321 lead bullets and that may be one of my problems, the jacketed bullets, both Speer and Hornady are also .321 and they shoot great. I have one last event to shoot this year, it's a Ruger # 1 shoot and jacked bullets are allowed, I have constantly shot 1/2 inch 5 shot groups with this gun and jacked bullets, sometimes under 1/2 inch, I don't seat the jacked bullets tight in the case, just snug enough so that they get right into the rifling, I've been using  25.0 Gr. of 4895, it's a very mild load and seems that 5 shot groups always stay 1/2 inch or less.

The powder star on the face of the muzzle is as perfect as can be. 
This gun was really taken care of, it's a full Octagon 30 inch barrel, Case Colored receiver, and Canjar trigger. I think it was made in the mid to late 1970's but not really sure ?.

Thank you again for your recommendations. I'm in the Northern PA area and the weather right now is not conductive to good shooting, the Ruger # 1 shoot will be my last shoot of this year as I just can not handle being outdoors in the cold weather. Will try to get everything together for the spring of 2010.
  Best regards and thank you again.
    S T
  
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