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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages (Read 27552 times)
RSW
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #15 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 10:35pm
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set_trigger
Schuetzen is a cast bullet game, it’s a lot more about the bullet than which cartridge case holds the powder. Of your time in the shop making shooting preparations, spend about 10 percent on cartridge case prep, priming, etc. and the other 90 percent making perfect bullets (casting and lubing). If you want to shoot good scores, it requires bullets that are as perfectly consistent as you can make them and it’s not an incidental chore.
Don’t waste your time trying to find the “silver bullet” in cartridge choice, when the real silver bullet is just that, and you gotta cast ‘em.
  

Randy W
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40_Rod
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #16 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 8:51am
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Personal choice is a major consideration for single shot shooters. There is no one cartridge any more than there is one stock that is best. Each case addresses individual concerns or addresses perceived inadequacies in the traditional 32-40 or 38-55 cases of the past. 
  The quest started when Charlie Dell designed a case to address the fact that with the use of smokeless powder a case the size of the 32-40 had more than enough boiler room. He wanted a case than would hold the powder needed and overfill on a double charge. He settled on a .357 Mag case tapered to .32. Dean had developed a similar case the .32 Miller a .357 max case tapered to .32.
A couple of years later Dean Miller and Rich Kayser thought to shorten the case and developed an almost identical case. If you look at the two cases side by side you can’t tell the difference. Later cases addressed other concerns that the three earlier cases did not take into account. In my case I wanted to address the problem of loading a short case into actions such as the Winchester High Wall and the Sharps Borchardt. I was aware of the .32 Miller but wanted to develop my own case, kind of like the Dodge brothers knew Henry Ford made a car, they just wanted to make their own. Others jumped off in different directions to address their own concerns.
  All of these cases show potential. I don’t think for performance one case has a clear performance advantage over the other. My experiments with the 32-30 IMP show identical speeds when duplicating loads that others use in their 32 X .357 Dells or .32 Miller shorts.
  
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westerner
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #17 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 9:36am
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Quote:

I thought for sure that after all these years there would be a special "go to" Schuetzen cartridge. 

 S T


S T, there is a go to cartridge for Schutzen. It's the 32/40 Remington blown out to .32.   Wink  Oh, its the case to the right.  Smiley

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Or it could be called a 40/70/32?   Grin  .32 Krag straight??  Cheesy

                                     Joe.  
  

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KAF
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #18 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 9:44am
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A year or so back I asked, What 32 cal case should I go with in a new barrel.
I had a 32-40 but it was a BP cartridge.

A very wise and experienced shooter told me, (Dale Reynolds)

Go with the reamer you can get.

I am glad I went with the 32-30 Imp, There was a immediate improvement in my scores.

Why a 32?  Because I had moulds already.

The 32-30 Imp is much easier to use arthritic hands to insert the case in the breech, and if double charged, powder runs over.

I have another 32 cal barrel ordered from RK Smith.
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #19 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 11:33am
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The accuarcy is not related to the capacity of the 32 case. Accuracy is related to having good bullets without any air pockets and with sharp square edges on the bullet base; that you have a bullet seater that aligns the bullet perfectly in the center of the rifle barrel; and that you have a bullet seater that can extend far enough out to ensure the base band of the bullet is engraved and fully seated to prevent any gas cutting around the base band.

A good case provides  ease of use, prevention of case sticking in the chamber, ease in making of the cases, ease in chambering the case profile with available reamers, and increased life expectancy of the cases plus a good design that works with single shot extractors and falling block receivers.
  
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Set_Trigger
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #20 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 2:27pm
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I think Jeff Schultz has the best idea yet, start with a high end match barrel, chamber it for the smallest shortest 32 like a 32-20, and if need be work my way up to the next largest 32 case, then the next, till I get to the old 32-40 that was really made for BP. 

I figure if I do it in something like a CPA or a Ruger # 1 I wont have to worry about the problem of loading a short cartridge and should not have an extractor problem. 

My next question if I may:

Most all agree that one of the most important components is the bullet, being that I'm not into casting and it would probably take forever for me to learn how to cast good match bullets, can anyone recommend where one could buy match grade cast rifle bullets ?. 

I know there are lots of sources for jacked match grade bullets but don't remember ever seeing lead rifle bullets listed as match grade.
 Thanks for the help guys.
   S T
« Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2009 at 2:33pm by »  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #21 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 2:50pm
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ST,

If you haven't already bought one, get a copy of Randy Wright's new book on Schuetzen Shooting, loading, etc., etc., then read the book from cover to cover; 

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Bob
« Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2009 at 3:38pm by Schutzenbob »  
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leadball
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #22 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 3:15pm
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      Good [match grade] bullets are not hard to make, a J Borton or P Jones mould and a melting pot and some lead alloy and with practice, you can be making these same bullets in maybe a month.  Cast bullet shooting is very much a casting game but, to answer your question no one is going to make these match grade bullets for you, if you were to find someone to make bullets for you what about the next 100 or 1000 you need where will they come from, will they be the same bullet you were shooting good with last week. I hope you will jump in with both feet and learn to cast bullets, personally I like to cast bullets, its part of the game, I wouldn't let the best bullet caster in the world make bullets for me.  leadball
  
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #23 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 5:03pm
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Match bullets are not listed because no one makes them. All of the commercial bullets are too hard. Learning to cast good bullets is a part of this game. No one likes to cast but nobody is going to do it for you. In twenty-five years of this game I have only found one person who said that he liked to cast. 

40 Rod
  
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Set_Trigger
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #24 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 6:16pm
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Leadball,
I was assuming that like jacked bullets someone that sells Schuetzen supplies would have enough quality control that they could control what there makeing from batch to batch. Like anything else we buy, 22 Ammo, Powder, Primers, etc. all the items seem to have lot numbers to control how it's made. 

I'm not talking about buying small quantity of bullets like 50 or 100 at a time, I would buy them like I buy my 22 Ammo, and my jacked bullets, maybe 1000 or 2000 at a time, that would be about a years supply for me, in my part of the world I can only shoot about 5 months out of the year.

At this point I have nothing to cast with, no pot, no mould, no lead, no lube tool, no experience, etc. have nothing, and would not know what to buy or how to use it.

Glad to hear you like casting bullets, and if you wouldn't let the best bullet caster in the world make bullets for you it sounds like you must know what your doing and are probably shooting winning scores with your bullets.

Being that you like to cast so much would you sell me a 1000 of your best bullets, don't need them this year as my shooting season is just about over, but would like to have them about April or May of next year. 

If this is something that you would do to help out a new Schuetzen Shooter it's very much appreciated, this would help both of us, you would be doing what you like,  casting bullets, and getting paid to do it, and I get a chance to get into the Schuetzen game with some of the best bullets made,  just let me know the cost per 1000 and where to send the funds.

Bob,
I have Randy Wright's new book on the way. Now if my funds hold out I'm looking for the Dell Schuetzen book.

40 Rod,
Is that "one guy"  that likes to cast Leadball, if not can you let me know who the other guy is that likes to cast.
S T
  
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #25 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 7:11pm
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Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin, .......... Set_Trigger, you're a smooth one!!  Grin Grin Grin
 I hate casting bullets.  Wink

As far as store bought bullets. Yes it could be done just like it was in the old days around the turn of the century. The average offhand shooter would do okay with bullets that give mediocre accuracy. When it comes to modern benchrest competition and even top offhand shooters, those shooters will require extremely accurate bullets in there target rifles to make high scores.
 
I think you can buy cast bullets from suppliers like Buffalo Arms. I'm sure there's others.  Used to be a supplier in Poulsbo called Ardvark Bullets. I won a couple boxes of his hardcast .45 rifle bullets and thay shot extremely well in my roller at 200 yards. I see bags of cast bullets at the gunshows all the time. 

Where in the heck do you live anyway?  Alaska? Nort Dakota? Is there a post office somewhere close? If so you can get stuff sent in. 
Is there a bush pilot round there? Have your casting supplies flown in. I've always heard a bush pilot will do anything for a bottle of hooch. Is there a liquor store close?  Huh

                         Joe.  Smiley





« Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2009 at 7:43pm by westerner »  

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Set_Trigger
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #26 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 8:51pm
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Joe,
It's not so much the weather where I live it's me, I have a condition that when it drops below 65 I become house bound. I do get to the Post Office once a week, or at least once every two weeks for sure. There's no liquor store close by but as to a bush pilot liking hooch, that's not a problem, the boys around here make there own and we always seem to have enough for everyone. 

I really would like to give the Schuetzen shooting game a try and soon as Leadball gets back to me I figure I will have enough bullets for a years worth of shooting, then I'll know for sure if I want to get more involved. 

Another good thing about Leadball liking to cast is that if I do get into casting I'll have some of the Leadball bullets to gauge my bullets by. 
What could be better than that. I'm really glad that he likes to cast, this way it wont be a burden on him as he will be doing what he likes to do and helping out a new shooter, I only hope that I can do the same favor for a new shooter when I get to be an experienced shooter. I like the idea of passing it on and helping other shooters.
   S T
  
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #27 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 9:31pm
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Well I dont know Leadball, but I think he must be a swell guy. His posts are always informative and interesting. I'll bet he wont mind casting up a couple thousand bullets for ya. Ya might want to pay for the lead or do some swappin to repay him. He might take a quart of that home made hooch!  Wink Shocked

                                                Joe.  Smiley

  

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Set_Trigger
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #28 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 10:08pm
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Joe,
I don't expect Leadball to cast for nothing just because he likes to cast. 
I already offered to pay for his expertise and his material and time. I really don't need a couple thousand bullets, 1000 would do just fine, I'll be happy with 500 just to get started.

As to swappin some hooch, I don't know where he is but if he's within drivein distance maybe that could be done, I wont ship it, as that stuff could explode if not handled right.
 S T
« Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2009 at 8:26am by Jim_Borton »  
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #29 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 7:38am
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set _trigger;
                 I do like to cast bullets, but not well enough to make bullets for the other guy to shoot "BUT" when you mentioned the hooch everything changed--what state do you live in, I might even deliver.     LEADBALL
  
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