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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages (Read 27533 times)
Set_Trigger
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Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Sep 15th, 2009 at 4:20pm
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Ok I'm confused with all these 32's.
I have found a lot of Info on the 32-40, it seems to have been the standard Schuetzen Cartage/caliber for many years. 
But now I'm hearing about the following:

30-32-20.
32-30 IMP.
32 Miller Short.
32 Dell.
32 Bassett.

And I'm sure there may be others that I haven't heard of.

I'm somewhat familiar with the reason for having a smaller case so that there is less air space in the case with certain charges of smokeless powder.

I guess in the eyes of the guys that made up these short cases there cases are the best, lets face it,  why would anyone make up something that was not an improvement on something else. 

For a lot of you old timers that have been doing this for many years it's probably common knowledge as to the benefits of each of the different short 32 cartridges, but to a beginner it's just a big jumble of names that do not mean anything and doing a search for something like Bassett tells us nothing.

Then I realized that when Jim Borton didn't know what a 32 Bassett was and he asked the question, "what is a 32 Bassett" that even some of the long time shooters don't seem to know what the benefits of a new 32 is.

If the name of the game is accuracy can anyone explain in an easy to understand way what is so great about this 32 Bassett or a 32-30 IMP or any other short 32, in other words what makes any of them better than a 32 Dell ?.
  S T
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #1 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 4:27pm
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maybe parent case availability, I know some are based on the 357Max case and others use a standard 357 case.  The Journal and the website here have both had articles/discussions on the Miller/Dell that tend to be pretty intense loads better suited for the newer stronger actions

also maybe "just because I can" Wink   Most of the guys who are playing this game are inveterate tinkerers and tweakers and 'ginning up your own  case is part of the fun.

Re: the Basset,  I'm assuming that it's something Marlin cooked up and probably has an interesting history.
  

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Set_Trigger
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #2 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 5:02pm
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Quote:

  I'm glad that there is variety and experimentation with cartridges in contrast to another shooting sport where it seems like everybody uses a 6mm PPC.



That's more or less why I'm asking the question. The 6 PPC has proven it self over and over again that it's the "go to" cartage if your concern is accuracy. That's not saying that all  "experimentation"  has stopped in that field,  believe me it hasn't, but so far no one has found anything better.

So, here's the question, what has all this experimentation with different 32 short cartridges done to improve things in the Schuetzen game, is there a "go to" cartridge in the 32 Short line ?.
  S T
  
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #3 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 5:11pm
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ST, the 30 32-20 referenced earlier uses the standard 32-20 cartridge case, but a .308" barrel.  I decided to use it when I built my Ruger No. 3 because a:  I had the barrel, and it was paid for, b:  I had a bunch of decent .30 caliber bullet molds, and c:  it had similar case capacity to the various short .32 cartridges like the Miller, and I could use that load data as a starting point in my load development.  As was said, the short cases do develop more pressure, and must not be used in weaker actions such as the Ballard or Low Wall Winchesters.   

David Kaiser
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David Kaiser
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #4 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 5:19pm
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Some folks are always trying to invent an improved mouse trap, if I understand it correctly the 32 Miller Short, 32 Wayne Schwartz, etc., etc. were designed to shoot with a specific load, so the case holds about 12½ or 13 grains of 4227 with a foam wad on top, it shoots well and you can’t double charge it. I choose to use a 32-40 but I have to be very careful when I’m loading it, also some folks think that the distribution of the powder inside the larger case can make a difference in the pressure, but I've never noticed that. ¿Quien Sabe?
  
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #5 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 6:14pm
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Well here goes with what I think I know.
John Merz made the 32-30 IMP from almost full length 357 Max because it's easier to handle and maybe because he thought the 32 MS was too short. I agree and think his cartridge is about ideal for our kind of shooting.
Dave Stahl made the 32 Basset from full length 357 Max with a neck (kind of like running 357 Max into a shortened 32 Special die) so he could shoot fixed ammunition for offhand. He felt the advantage of the speed & convenience of fixed offset the advantage of accuracy gained from breachseating when shooting offhand. Since he has shot better targets offhand than some people can off the bench, it's hard to argue. He named it 32 Basset because Bass was always trying to get fixed ammo to shoot as good as breachseated, so that when conditions were right you could send those bullets into the center quickly while the condition held.
Hope I have not muddied the water too much; I welcome correction.
  

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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #6 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:08pm
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This is the reason I asked about the length of the .32-30IMP.Wanted to see how it compared to the already used .32MShort/.32Dell etc.Jeff,do you know lenth of the >32-30IMP? Thanks again,Fritz
  
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #7 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:51pm
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Fritz'
Off the top of my head I think 1.6", but John can confirm that.
  

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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #8 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:54pm
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Thanks for your reply-Jeff,Fritz
  
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #9 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 8:52am
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Jeff, Fizt, Set-Trigger
I developed the 32-30 IMP after a particularly frustrating weekend of shooting a High Wall that I had chambered in 32 X .357 Dell. The case is just too short! The only way that I could load the rifle was to set the case on top of the block and partially raise the block until I could poke the Dell case into the chamber then lower the block and seat the case then raise the block and fire then start all over again. What A pain. It dawned on me that what was needed was a case that was a little longer so you could hold the case and start it into the chamber, but still short enough so that a double charge would be evident. 
  When I got home I decided to design a case that would meet my needs. I was aware that Dale Reynolds was using a 32-30 Remington on a .30 barrel and was starting to see some success. I thought that something along those lines, only in true .32 and adjusted for length so the much cheaper .357 Max brass could be used for a parent case would be what I was after. I took a .357 Max shell and ran it up into a 32-30 Rem. form die, then expanded the case mouth to a true 32. What I ended up with was a case that appeared to have no shoulder but if you ran your thumb over it you could feel a slight bump. I knew that the shoulder that was left had no real function and would just make a reamer grinder nuts so I set the case down to think. I just happened to set the new case next to one of my Dell cases and while I was thinking on what to do it hit me. The new case and the Dell case were very similar; the new case was just longer. I ran the new case through a Dell trim die and let the neck just come out the top. Then I trimmed it to 1.600” to clean up the neck and viola the 32-30 Imp was born. It could be made up from stuff I already had and it met all the criteria that I had set when I started to conceive the project. I tweaked a few things when I drew the reamer print and had one ground. It has been successful and a few friends have asked
  
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #10 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 8:57am
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As a side note the shape of the case makes the inside of the case almost straight walled so a wad can be set at any depth. The load data works out identical to the .32 X .357 Dell or the .32 Miller short.

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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #11 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 11:53am
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Probably for the same reason[s] there are as many variations of choice in modern centerfire BR, some guys want to shoot something different.
« Last Edit: Sep 29th, 2009 at 8:52am by tim_s »  

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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #12 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 5:11pm
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Some of the factors regarding the development of a 32 wildcat are:

1. .32 caliber is a preferred caliber for precision accuarcy since the bullet is large enough and therefore less sensitive to wind effects; but not too heavy of a recoil; which affects bench accuracy when using  larger calibers
2. many are trying to develop a small case with a .32 mouth that has a rim that single shot extractor can handle
3. some want a case with enough sidewall taper to prevent the sticking fround with many straight wall cases.
4. many want an open mouth case for breech seating and do not want a bottle neck case
5. many want a case that isn't too difficult to make out of existing brass or brass that has heavier wall thicknesses that will stand up to heavier pressures than hand guns loads
6. many want a case that will feed properly into the single shot falling block actions
7. many develop a case which enables them to use an exisitng reamer i.e. .223 case body to the shoulder are the same demesions of the .32 RKS Schuetzen case made from a .357 case tapered with a .223 die after cutting down to 1.470 inches.
  
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Set_Trigger
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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #13 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 7:04pm
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So I guess what you guys are saying is that after all the years of modern Schuetzen shooting there is no "go to" cartridge like the modern Bench Rest shooters have ( 6 PPC ),  and if a shooter is looking for smokeless powder accuracy in a Schuetzen Rifle all he has to do is pick one of the short 32's and have at it, no matter how much guys beat there drum about how much more accurate there cartridge is over some other cartridge no one cartridge is really any better than any other one when it comes to accuracy. 

So if I was to have a CPA Schuetzen Type Rifle built it would not make any difference if it was done up in a 32 Miller Short or a 32 Dell, or any other short 32 like a 32-20, as they would all shoot the same accuracy wise in the same match barrel. I thought for sure that after all these years there would be a special "go to" Schuetzen cartridge. Thanks for all the input guys. Now all I have to do is decide which short one to pick.

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Re: Why all the different 32 Schuetzen Cartages
Reply #14 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 9:39pm
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Yes, one of the short 32's would be a good start because you can always ream it out to 32-40 which is as accurate as any of the others. Smiley
  

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