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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION (Read 16219 times)
texasmac
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SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Jul 12th, 2009 at 7:17pm
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Hey guys,

I just updated an article on my web site titled “SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION”.  Those of you that are considering a scope may find the information valuable or at least interesting.  It chronicles the research and steps I went through in coming to a decision on a scope for my rifles.  To view the article go to my web site ( (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)) and click on the articles tab.   

Wayne
  

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texasmac
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #1 - Jul 21st, 2009 at 2:17pm
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I have a question for you seasoned competitive scope shooters.  In the article I mentioned in my earlier posting, one of the scopes I discuss is the Unertl Small Game Scope.  The photos I included (see one below) show a recoil spring assembly installed, which returns the scope back to "battery" postion after firing.  My question is, does the recoil spring assembly comply with NRA rules for silhouette competition?

Wayne

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e15cap
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #2 - Jul 21st, 2009 at 5:10pm
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Most shooters using this type of scope will set the spring so that it is not working to return to battery. Having the spring in play could result in a large divit in your forehead if used on heavy recoiling rifles. Best for .22 use only.
                                                Best, Roger
« Last Edit: Jul 21st, 2009 at 5:22pm by »  
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DonN
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #3 - Jul 21st, 2009 at 7:18pm
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No spring I'm not even sure you could use an Unerl it was made/ designed after 1898 which is the cut-off date for equipment. There are some exceptions  Stevens 441/2 for example. 
Don
  
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texasmac
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #4 - Jul 21st, 2009 at 9:52pm
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Roger,
Hmmmmm, that's an interesting comment.  I had not considered what happens if the scope springs back too quickly.  So what about all those longer and higher-power Unertl scopes which typically are used with the recoil spring.  Am I to understand these are limited to small caliber rifles?  I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to understand.

Don,
You may be correct about the NRA not allowing the use of the spring, which is my fundamental question, yet to be answered.  And yes, a cut-off date does apply to some extent.  But just like the rifle design cut-off date, current manufactured scopes are legal as long as they are typical of the era.  As with the rifle, the NRA rules say, Replicas thereof, regardless of the origin or manufacture, are permitted as long as they meet the additional stated design and dimensional requirements, which the Unertl Small Game Scope certainly meets without the spring.  So currently manufactured scopes such as MVA, RHO, Leatherwood, etc. are OK with the correct mounts.

By the way, the NRA cut-off date is anything prior to 1896 (not 1898).  You're confusing the NRA rule date with the ATF's date defining antique rifles, which is defined as a firearm manufactured during or prior to 1898.

Wayne
  

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DonN
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #5 - Jul 22nd, 2009 at 8:51am
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Wayne 
Your right in all respects. I know springs are not allowed. I read it somewhere, the BPCNews. 
As for the Unertl scope I've never seen one on the line. There are plenty of them out there, for some reason there not being use, why I don't know. NRA rules??? The next time you shoot BPCR take one out and see what happens. That should be fun.
Don
  
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e15cap
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #6 - Jul 22nd, 2009 at 9:38am
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Wayne, My experience is that the big scopes are used for load devolopment and foolin around. All cases that I have seen, and myself will lock the spring back so that it is inop. Wipe the outside of the scope with a light coat of oil so that is free to slide forward. I shoot a 15pwr STS on my 45-70 and got tapped once when the recoil spring was engaged and learned my lesson.
                                                     Best, Roger
  
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texasmac
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #7 - Jul 22nd, 2009 at 11:11am
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Don,
I'm not surprise that the springs are not allowed.  I have a few books displaying late 19th century and early 20th century rifle scopes.  None have a spring although some are designed to slide under recoil and have the sliding rib commonly referred to as a Pope-style rib.  Concerning the absence of Unertl scopes seen in competition, Unertl made a lot of scopes; most have large objective lenses and features that do not meet the NRA rules.  As far as I can tell, the only model that does meet the NRA rules is the Unertl Small Game Scope.  So it comes as no surprise to me that they are not in wide use.  Although there may have been other scope suppliers that supplied a model with a recoil spring, I used the photo of the Small Game Scope since it was the only photo I had of a scope with a recoil spring installed.

Roger,
Thanks for the additional comments and insight.  There’s nothing like 1st hand experience to substantiate how something works or does not work.  Not actually having used one of the scopes with the spring in place and functioning as intended, I had no 1st hand knowledge to draw from.

Regards,
Wayne
  

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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #8 - Jul 22nd, 2009 at 2:51pm
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The spring will cause off shots perhaps not today or tomorrow but sooner or later you will think it returned to battery but it short stroked instead.  Better to pull it back and feel it go home properly.

As far as Unertils, I gave up BPCS for Schuetzen years ago but from memory it's the click adjustments that keep them out of the game.  Has to have a Vernier as I recall.  DeHorned Unertil Varmints don't have exposed knobs  but still click under the cap.   

I think some Small games are de-horned like a Varmint.  Even if allowed  you would not be able to re-set a de-horned scope in the allowed time changing banks of critters.  Had one, they don't adjust very well, about like a modern hunting scope.

Boats
  
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #9 - Jul 22nd, 2009 at 4:13pm
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As far as the Unertl/Fecker mounts for .22 BPCR, you are correct in that they can not have clicks when adjusting the knobs.  However, that is easy to cure.  The Unertl small game scope, Fecker, MVA, Winchester/Lyman and Leatherwood are all used in both the BPCR and .22 BPCR.  As I understand it just has to be 3/4" tube all the way.  The older ones are just getting hard to find anymore.  Dan Zimmerman of DZ Arms in OKC area is making new unertl styled mounts that are very nice.  You can purchase them from the "online" catalog from Buffalo Arms now.  They even have alittle more room for vertical movement.  The mounts are blacked and the marks and numbers are in white.  Quite easy to read and to adjust.  Severals shooters were using them at Raton this year.  Many shooters are looking at getting the Leatherwood scope and put Dan's mounts on them to be use for either BPCR or .22 BPCR.
  
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #10 - Jul 22nd, 2009 at 4:15pm
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Forgot to add, that I agree.  No rebound springs can be used for the BPCR or .22 BPCR matches
  
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #11 - Jul 22nd, 2009 at 5:35pm
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Love those Unertl small game scopes, Got several down at the old PONY EXPRESS SPORT SHOP here in the valley 39.95 in the box.
guess they are more now? Grin
  
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texasmac
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #12 - Jul 22nd, 2009 at 10:01pm
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Guys,
I cover just about everything mentioned including de-clicking a Unertl mount plus a lot more in my article (with pictures too  Grin) at the following link. 
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What I wasn't sure about was the legality of the recoil spring.  Thanks for answering that question.

Wayne
  

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texasmac
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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #13 - Jul 22nd, 2009 at 10:08pm
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Tom,
If you run across any more of the Unertl Small Game Scopes, even for 4X or 5X the price you mentioned, let me know, I'll buy them all.  Roll Eyes Grin

There's one on eBay with a current bid price of $355.
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Wayne
  

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Re: SEARCHING FOR A COST EFFECTIVE BPCR SCOPE SOLUTION
Reply #14 - Jul 23rd, 2009 at 8:41am
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Last small game I bid on ended up selling for over 500 bucks. Not to me though.

Wish Carlos Hathcock had used a Jap Tasco.

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