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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) New Stevens Lord 22- input please (Read 15325 times)
red_stevens
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New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Jul 2nd, 2009 at 1:51am
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I just purchased another Lord but this one in 22.  No more 25 rf for me after $70 a box for ammo.  This one is worn and needs a reline job as well as refinishing and fresh out the checkering.  Below is a link to the photos.  Would you refinish or leave as is.  Just for your knowledge I paid a very small price for it and have plenty of room to spend on refinishing etc...  I want to shoot this gun as I shot my 25 rf Lord today and its a joy to shoot.  I fired 5 rounds at 25 yards putting all 5 holes in a quarter sized group- my eyes were the limiting factor and someone with good young eyes may do even better.  I now want to get the 22 to shoot like this.  The bore has no rifling left.  Also, it was drilled and tapped for a tang sight and this could have been done at the factory.  Sure would like to find and original Stevens tang sight for it but that will probably never happen, to rare or expensive.
What do you all think?  Given the photos would your restore on not.   
Red
link to photos( green background is the 22 lord):

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terry buffum
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #1 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 12:34pm
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I would have the barrel lined so it was a shooter, rust blue the barrel, leave the partial nickel on the frame, and then worry about the grips.  I really could not see them well enough, but probably my "plan" would be to oil finish them and wait on the checkering recut until I saw how the rest of it looks.  If the grips were completely redone, I suspect the nickel would then also need it, and that is the most difficult part of the project.

Congratulations on a great find!
  

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whitey hanson
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #2 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 6:25pm
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Red just to help you out. Smiley and save you some money you could send me that 25rf. I would give it a good home. Wink Whitey
  
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marlinguy
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #3 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 7:04pm
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I would agree with Terry on a partial restoration. Reline, barrel rust blue, and no agressive claening of the frame, just a little hand rubbed Flitz on it, and call it good. 
I think it would be a very respecatble shooter, and increase the value too.
  

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red_stevens
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #4 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 9:38pm
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Thanks everyone for the advice!  I will start with the reline and blue job.  I am still trying to find the Flitz polish to no avail.  I will get some Flitz online since I cannot seem to find an auto parts dealer who has it over the counter here.  After reading the how to rust blue on this forum I think I will do it myself.  I was considering buying the drill, reamer, and liner to line it myself as well.  I have some 22 pumps that need relining and could use the tools several times thus making it cost effective.  I am very capable as a handy man with tools and feel this job is within my ability.  I have never done one before but I see that Brownells provides an instruction set and I have read some about the process online and on this forum.  Of course, John Taylor comes very very highly recommended and I may relent and just pay to have him do his magic since it really is important to me to have this Lord shoot well.   
Thanks for the offer Whitey but I am very much in love with that 25 Lord after shooting it.  When I found the 22 Lord I had considered selling the 25 until I shot it.  It will go nowhere but in my safe and on to my son many years from now.  I will replace the Remington 121  pump rear sight with one reproduced like the windage adjustable original that it should have.
I will take all your advice and should I decide I cannot live with the flaking nickle I can have it done at any time in the future.  Going slow makes good sense.

Red
  
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slumlord44
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #5 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 11:10pm
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If you decide to have it relined, Taylor is as good as it gets. I am sure this is an iron framed gun. If it was mine, I would consider having the nickel striped, buff and polish the frame and brown it. If you try to blue it, they sometimes turn purple. Re nickeling will probably get expensive. I agree with you that the nickeling is pretty bad. If the browning does not work to your satisfaction, you can always bite the bullet and have it renickled. I have one of these that I bought cheap several years ago because it had been reblued and had custom grips on it. Bore is decent but not perfect. Shoots prety good and is a lot of fun. 
I have a Tip Up rifle that I picked up on the cheap several years ago. Nickle was well worn but not flaked off. Barrel was brown and rifling shot. Had it relined, cleaned and TruOiled the stock. Had to switch to a taller rear sight to get it to shoot to point of aim. Shoots great for a plinker and looks neat. Your pistol will be a fun project and will look good no matter which way you decide to go with it.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #6 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 11:13pm
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About the tang sight, I believe they were an option. Going to be tough to find. Saw one for some kind of Stevens pistol either on Ebay or Gunbroker a while back. Do not rember if it sold or not. Keep looking. You may find one somewhere.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #7 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 11:57pm
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That little single shot pistol with it's short barrel is about the cheapest thing a guy could ever have relined. It should be very economical to have it done.
Most hardware or even Fred Meyers carry another product called "Metal Glow", that is just like Flitz, but a bit cheaper. It's found in the section where they sell Brasso and pot cleaning agents.
Might check that before ordering.-Vall
  

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red_stevens
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #8 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 1:23am
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Slumlord44
The tang sight would be a great find especially if it were priced reasonably.  I saw the same one on ebay but I did not have the pistol at the time so I did not know I might need it.  Another option is the scope made by Stevens especially for this pistol.  The scope has long eye relief for shooting at arms length.  Its is Stevens number 570 and is pictured on page 92 of the Kenneth Cope book "Stevens Pistols and Pocket Rifles".  My 22 Lord pistol has the correct dovetails cut in the barrel for this scope unlike my 25 Lord which has the 2 screw rear sight attachment and no dovetails.  Both of these options are only a dream and I probably will never have an opportunity or resources to buy either one.  Although, I thought I would never own a Lord and now I have two of them.   It may be possible to make a tang sight copy that would work but I will worry about all of this once I get the pistol redone to suit me.  When I winter in Arizona I have access to a complete metal working shop with plasma cutters and CAD mills and lathes so making the sight could happen if I could get measurements from someone with and original.  I think it would be the same sight that is on the Vernier model Hunters Pet #34 1/2 Pocket Rifle.  I assume this is different than the sight on the 40 1/2 Vernier Pocket Rifle.   
Marlinguy, I had the same thought about how much it would cost to have the pistol lined and hoped it would be reasonable due to its small size and relative ease to do the work.  Maybe I will email John Taylor about this project to see what he has to say.  This is the first thing I want to get done.  I will visit Fred Meyer and get some Metal Glow.
Thanks for the suggestions again.   
Red
  
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #9 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 7:38am
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Red, I have Brownell's piloted bit for drilling out bad bores for relining. I also consider myself fairly adept at doing such work. I have relined several barrels using this equipment using both a hand drill and a lathe. While I have been satisfied with the work I have done there is always a seam visible at the muzzle. I discovered John Taylor several years ago ( before he was on this forum) and was absolutely amazed at the job he does. John reams the barrel to within .002 - .003 of an inch then  somehow produces a virtually invisible seam. I would not consider any other option for a really nice or rare gun.

I have no connection to John other than being a very satisfied customer.
  
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Chuckster
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #10 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 10:19pm
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Question about tip-ups: I have a homemade copy of a Stevens tip-up pistol. Shoots very well for several hundred shots, then hinge joint gets loose and and accuracy degrades. The receiver is made of mild steel so I just give it a little squeeze in the vice to tighten it and it is good for several hundred more. Is this a problem with the tip-up origionals?  The side locking lug does not tighten the hinge like a rear locking lug would.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #11 - Jul 4th, 2009 at 3:39pm
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Never had a Tip Up shoot loose, so my experience says no. I've even had a few in bigger centerfire calibers and they continued to shoot tightly without adjustment. My Tip Up in .32-35 is as tight as it probably was when new.
  

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powderhead
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #12 - Jul 4th, 2009 at 5:32pm
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I have real mixed emotions about restoring antique/curio and relic firearms.  About the most I will do to mine is to rub a little linseed oil in a dry stock, or add a re manufactured part to an incomplete gun.  Unless it's a rare example of something, I will pass on a gun that's been relined or reblued.  However, this is only my ethics and I don't judge others who want to restore an old gun to shoot.  I guess I had this reinforced by watching "Antiques Roadshow"  where the guy says,  "that table is worth 500$, but if you hadn't refinished it it would be worth 5,000$."      
  
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38_Cal
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #13 - Jul 4th, 2009 at 6:54pm
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I feel that old guns are more like old cars than furniture.  If you've got a loose, rusty hunk-o-junque, it's open season on restoration/refurbishment.  If it's in 75% condition on the cosmetics end and still tight, then I would advise repair but not restoration.   

Just got home from a friend's place where he showed me his latest find...a .219 Zipper Improved built by Hervey Lovell in 1947 on a single set trigger HiWall, with the lower tang bent for a varmint stock.  Restorable, yes, able to be turned into a Schuetzen, yes, but it's too nice as an early example of a varmint rifle built by a known gunsmith to want to do either!  Previous owner bought it from the guy that had it built by Lovell, stopped shooting it in the mid '50s when bullets for reloading were scarce!

David
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David Kaiser
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slumlord44
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #14 - Jul 4th, 2009 at 9:18pm
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As an old car nut also I can relate. Years back a modified or hot rod wasn't worth near as much as an original or restored car. Today a collectable car with great red paint, when the car was originaly green, will bring more. Good hot rods are worth more than restored originals. Go figure. When it comes to guns, if the gun is in decent shape or extremely rare, all I will do is carefuly clean it and preserve it. Bringing a rusted or broken hulk back into shooting condition and making it look presentable, or even totaly restoring it is acceptable to me. This is an individual choice and the owner has to live with it
  
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red_stevens
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #15 - Jul 5th, 2009 at 1:19am
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I also used to restore old cars, namely Packards.  It has always been acceptable to rebuild cars to the former glory.  Often, they were restored well beyond the configuration with which they came from the factory.  I have seem many a sedan or even a limo made into and open car by collectors because they either wanted and open car or the monitary incentive to do this was to great.  I fear that many a gun could be done the same way.  My new 22 Lord pistol is a good potiential gun for an over restoration.  It could be made to look like the one Buffalo Bill owned.  I will not do this sort of thing but I fear that its done a bunch by some collectors.  However, I see nothing wrong with restoring a gun back to what it was originally or even reworking it to be what the owner wants so long as its properly represented.  I think its important to do something to a gun that has been made into a rare model form so that its easy for others to tell that its not how the factory made it.  The guy who reworks it may be totally honest if he sells it but after 3 or more changes in ownership these guns can suddenly become something they are not.  This leads to fraud and very hard lessons for some buyers.  It would sure be nice if we could trust everyone but let the buyer beware is a very important motto to go by in the old gun business.   
Red
  
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marlinguy
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #16 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 9:03pm
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Wish there was some way to mark or ensure a restored gun would never be sold as an original, but not sure it's possible. Especially if the restoration is well done!
I mark the ones I've done in a hidden spot with a date and intials, but what will that mean to someone decades down the road? I sometimes think a crook will turn anything into what he wants when he goes to sell it. He might easily make up a story to go with the markings I left, and make a little extra on it, just because he can.
Still I don't feel bad restoring a hulk, or building up a gun from just a bare action. If somebody down the road owns it, and wants to do something crooked with it, I guess he'll have to live with that, or answer for it eventually.
  

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slumlord44
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #17 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 9:20pm
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I seem to recall one of Doug Turnbill's restorations showing up as a mint original a while back and being recognized. I have more than one realy old gun that by now is hard to tell who did what to over the years. That is part of what makes the hobby interesting. I would like to see the face of the poor guy who lifts up the trunk mat on my '57 T-Bird many years after I am gone, and finds a part of a Ford fender with the Fairlaine emblem still on it that somone used to patch the floor before I bought it in 1965!
  
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red_stevens
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #18 - Jul 7th, 2009 at 5:27pm
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My Lord 22 arrived yesterday afternoon and was not mechanically as good as I hoped it would be.  I am keeping it but will need to have John Taylor do more work than I had expected.  It will need hammer and trigger work and maybe the barrel latch tightened a little.  The finish cleaned up some and the grips are better than the photos showed.  I may leave it cosmetically alone.
Red
  
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #19 - Aug 8th, 2009 at 10:48am
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Wow I want that table worth $500 and if it were not refinished $5000.  Shocked Where can I "find" that guy. Roll Eyes
Big difference between refinished and restored.
   Don   rustyrelx
  
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red_stevens
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #20 - Aug 8th, 2009 at 5:29pm
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I received my Lord pistol back from John Taylor yesterday afternoon and John has done his usual outstanding job rebuilding it.  He had to weld the hammer and recut the sear and half cock notch and then heat treat it,  lengthen the trigger sear and heat treat it, rework the latch by welding and refitting to the frame slot, and reline the barrel.  All this work is first class.  You cannot see any line at the muzzle to indicate the liner has been installed.  The trigger pull is outsandingly smooth and about 2 pounds with excellent crisp break.  I have not had a chance to shoot a group with it yet but expect it to shoot great.  I will post the shooting results after I get to the range in the next week.
Red
  
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marlinguy
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #21 - Aug 8th, 2009 at 10:18pm
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slumlord44 wrote on Jul 6th, 2009 at 9:20pm:
I seem to recall one of Doug Turnbill's restorations showing up as a mint original a while back and being recognized.


Yep! Doug was at one of James Julia's auctions where a "mint, and possibly unfired 1893 Marlin" was being previewed. Reserve was $10,000, and Doug thought it looked familiar, so he called his shop and had them look up his records for that serial number. Turned out he had completely rebuilt and restored the gun 20 years earlier.
I know the seller and the gun had changed hands numerous times, and somewhere along the way it became a mint original, instead of a Turnbull restoration.
Now here's the funny part! When the gun was auctioned, it was announced that it was indeed a Turnbull restoration, and that the reserve was dropped. End result was the gun went for the reserve price anyway, even after the announcement. So will we see it again in 20 yrs. as a unfired mint gun? Wink
  

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red_stevens
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #22 - Aug 13th, 2009 at 8:08pm
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I finally took the Lord to the range today.  I shot 3 ten shot groups from rest with it.  Every round fired with no missfires or ejection issues.  The groups were fired at 25 yards and measured about 1.25 inches, 1.00 inch, and 1.25 inches with the fixed sights on the gun.  My eyes are the limiting factor and I am sure its capable of much better groups if someone with good eyesight were pulling the trigger.  The gun shoots about 10 inches high at 25 yards and probably would shoot point of aim at 100 yards.  I did not try it a 100 yards which seems like a very long shot to me with this gun.  I am very happy with it and now must decide how to deal with the cosmetics.  I am still undecided as to what to do about the bluing, nickel, and wood.   
Thanks to John Taylor for his fine work as this pistol is fun now that he has made it shoot.
Red
  
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slumlord44
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Re: New Stevens Lord 22- input please
Reply #23 - Aug 13th, 2009 at 9:26pm
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You may be able to get it to shoot to point of aim at 25 yards by playing with the sights. Had a tip up rifle relined and had to install a taller rear sight to get it to shoot to point of aim. Liners sometimes do this no matter how good the installer is. Group size will be good but it is possible for the point of aim to be somewhat off.
  
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