This is not a rant but a proposal, It is my next editorial for the Journal that I am posting early to get your response. As the editorial states I am interested in bringing this up at the general membership meeting. What do you think? Let me know.
For the Record      

  In the January February issue I published the list of record scores for the ASSRA. It struck me that since I have been the editor of the Journal no records have been submitted from any of the affiliated clubs. This puzzled me so I went to the Constitution and the Match, Equipment and Scoring Rule books for guidance. Our Constitution is mute on the subject of match records, but The Match, Equipment and Scoring Rule book contains section 7.10 Records
Records are kept for each individual match event, but also for high target scores even though the high score target is part of another event. For example if one target of the Hudson match has a score bettering 241-5 it will set a new record for a 10 shot Offhand target score. 
7.11 
Matches named for specific shooters (except the Hudson match), which are shot only at the Etna Green range, will be considered world class records. Similar matches shot at affiliated club ranges will not be designated by these names, but will qualify for ASSRA National records for matches, which adhere to the same rules. For example: The Hill Match is a single entry, any sight, ten shot offhand match. Scores for this event fired at Etna Green only will qualify for entry in the world class records. A similar single entry, any sight, ten shot offhand match fired at an affiliated club will not qualify the shooter for a place in the world records but will be included in the national match records. It is possible for a shooter at Etna Green to shoot a score that will simultaneously set a world record and a national record. 

  With all due respect neither of these is helpful in determining how scores become records. It starts with the assumption that the score is recognized but lays out no mechanism for submitting the score for consideration. Also the terms World and National records are somewhat confusing and have become a point of contention for some who will never be able to attend a match at Etna Green and therefore qualify for a WORLD record.
  My first proposal is to change the titles of the match records To: Record scores for matches shot at the five ASSRA matches per year held at Beeson’s Range in Etna Green Indiana be designated as National Match Records. These five matches are open to all ASSRA members and are held on the range owned and operated by the ASSRA. These five matches are our National matches and the time when all members are welcome to come and shoot shoulder to shoulder with ASSRA members from affiliated clubs from all over the country. This range is not operated by local club and is the property of all ASSRA members. Record scores shot at all other ASSRA affiliated venues, by ASSRA members will be designated as Affiliated Club Records. 
  Second I would like to establish how scores qualify as records. This is what I would propose:

1.)      The target to be considered is to be signed by the Schuetzenmeister to verify that the target was shot at a match under ASSRA rules and that the Shooter is an ASSRA member.
2.)      The signed target is to be sent to the Clubs coordinator for verification. If the target is to be returned to the shooter a self addressed stamped envelop of an appropriate size should be sent with the target.
3.)      The Clubs coordinator will notify the ASSRA Schuetzenmeister and the Journal editor of any new records.
4.)      The Journal editor will add any new or tied records to the list of ASSRA records.

The procedure is simpler for records shot at Etna Green as the ASSRA Schuetzenmeister runs the matches he needs only to examine the target to determine if a record has been broken and inform the Journal editor. 
  I believe that this will clear up a lot of confusion and miscommunication on how records are set and what is a record. This is the proposal that I would like to present to the general membership at the Spring Meeting. I would like to get your thoughts on the subject. In addition to the editorial page I am placing this on our website for comment. If you have any comments or criticisms please write or e-mail me or post your comments on our website.

40 Rod

Wow 
Almost 100 looks and only one comment. Just a few months ago the subject of record scores was a big deal. The criticism included not only assertions that shooters in some local matches were left out, but this was another example of how the ASSRA “high Muckety Mucks” didn’t care about the rank and file. So I put together a proposal to fix the problem and post it so that all of you who can’t get to a meeting can put in your ideas because that seems to be another major complaint. Your silence has been deafening. One person actually posted a comment. 

40 Rod

The issue has been raised on this forum a number of times and has been supported with personal discussions with the BODs. At this point it is up to the BODs to put a process in place that actually records and reports Club records; not just the World records. Any further discussions in public about our concerns seems to result in dismemberment. 

Unfortunately many of those who were concerned have left the ASSRA.

Ok read it over and still appreciate the effort and thought.

Seems to me based on numbers of shooters at different venues soon we will have a "world record" that is numerically lower than "national records".  Many more people shoot outside Etna Green than at Etna Green, In offhand for example there is little competition at the ASSRA home range and any records fired there ought to be vulnerable.

Considered that point ?  It's ok with me if that takes place but expect it will happen.  Why not cut to the chase and make a record a record were ever it's shot.

Boats

I will be more than happy to go with whatever is clearly stated and consistently used.  To keep it from getting too cumbersome, we might want to let each local club keep and submit their own local records which could be then compiled for an ASSRA (association wide) record.  Records shot at Etna Green would be maintained as Etna Green Records in the same way that records achieved at the Olympics are categorized as Olympic Records as distinct from World Records in all events.  I have a little bit of a philosophical problem with ASSRA using the term "World Record" since we are not the only such shooters in the world shooting on the only offhand targets in the world, but on things like the size of a group off the bench (as was reasonably achieved by Dale Reynolds) there could be direct comparison.  JMHO, YMMV.

Froggie

Let's keep it simple. National Records can be shot at any ASSRA or ISSA sanctioned shoot. Naturally, the Schuetzenmeister must verify and
a couple of witnesses should also sign off. Jim Feren's 2341 is the national record in the 100 shot offhand match. I know of at least 3 250's that were shot with irons sights at an ISSA match. Folks, I'll bet that at
least 95% of the shooters at any schuetzen shoot are ASSRA members. And I see no reason for conflicts.
On another subject, I personally have no problem supporting the Etta Green facility. It's comforting to have the range.

fred

It's third or fourth hand from me but think Jim Ferens 2341 was at a ASSRA club on the ASSRA target and under ASSRA rules. But not at Etna Green.

Boats

Agree with you completely.

Jim Feren was one of the best offhand shooters of his time. Won Modern Rifle championships more than once. His efforts with a Single shot have not been properly recognized.

Boats

There are a lot of good ideas coming in I‘ll try to address each. 
Set trigger at most matches in the ASSRA there is only 1 person who verifies a target, the Schuetzenmeister. When a hole is close to the edge or when there is a question in the mind of the schuetzenmeister on a groups size he may ask others to measure it but the final decision remains with him. Having the local schuetzenmeister verify that the target is shot legally and he believes it to be a record. Then having clubs co-coordinator verify that it is in fact a record seems reasonable.
  As to a record is a record this is an idea that I floated in the past that was roundly rejected. The argument against is that some ranges are more / less friendly to good scores than others. Being that politics is the art of the possible I am now floating the idea of ASSRA records and National match records. Along this vane I like Subsailor’s idea of adding language that would make it possible for a National match record to also be an ASSRA record if the match rules are the same for both matches. 
  As to Mr. Feren’s score I remember when it was shot but not the details. This is why I am trying to put in place a set of rules as to how one goes about setting a record. When Jim shot his targets there was no way set up to make sure that his accomplishment was recognized, that is why I am trying to get this done. For the record I would be in favor of having a one-year period to submit targets that are believed to qualify for records that were shot in the past, if they follow the rules when they are set up.

40 Rod

SPG agree on the incentive and it's a fine gesture you make.  We talk about getting new shooters into the sport.  Schuetzen rifles are expensive and complicated. Average guy out there is going to find it hard to get started with Range Club  Match or World records way out of reach.

While new is good I have long thought our best chance to get new shooters is from cross over competitors from other Rifle disiplines.  Handling records and proper recognition is one of the ways to attract them.  Jim Feren was a Sillouette shooter. Among the ranks of Silouette shooters today there are a dozen or more that could challenge Single Shot records.  However they need some incentive to do so.   

Boats

I wrote this yesterday and have been debating whether or not to post it.  SPG and Set_Trigger seem to understand, I wonder if anyone else does?  So here goes:

I said several months ago that I was not going to post here anymore after several people I respect were banned from this forum, but this whole subject has me so P.O.'d that I am going to post this:

English words have meaning!  

A world record is a record that happens anywhere in the world under comparable conditions.  A sprinter running the 100 meters can be in Tokyo or Berlin at a track meet, and if the track is certified to be 100 meters long, and the event is properly sanctioned and observed, and time is not wind aided, IT IS A WORLD RECORD.

A National record is the same thing occurring anywhere within a country.

A National Match or event record is the same thing at a designated event.

That is the way it works in the entire world of sports, not just shooting.

Which brings us to the ASSRA (that is the AMERICAN Single Shot Rifle Association) and the Etna Green rifle club.  A world or national record should be any record shot at an ASSRA affiliated match, on an ASSRA target, period.  If you want to set up some additional conditions for certifying match directors or witnessing targets fine, but claiming that world records can only be set on your particular home range in Indiana is just stupid.  If Etna Green is the home of the ASSRA national matches, then the records set there are national match records and if they are good enough they may also be American or world records.

Figure it out.

Now you can ban me from further posting too!  A former member, 14 years I think.

As I see it, Assra's National Matches are shot at Beeson's Range, Etna Green, Indiana; therefore records shot there are "National Match Records".

Gentlemen
I thought I was being clear but apparently I was too oblique. Set trigger what I meant was that I had already floated your Idea of having one set of records and met opposition. That was why I tried to point out that politics is the art of the possible, Can we put together a proposal that a.) the board will vote for and b.) that the membership will vote for. There are many for whom Beeson’s range is a very special place. The original constitution sets up World and National records I agree that they are poorly named. I am trying to change that but we can’t if I take a proposal that I know won’t get past the board or a general membership meeting. Given that, in my original wording I struck the original titles and designated records set at the 5 matches at Beeson’s as National Match Records and the records shot at all other clubs as Affiliated Club Records. But after reading sub sailor I was agreeing that a better way to do it was to Have them be National Match Records and ASSRA Match Records adding that it was possible to set a match record at Beeson’s and have it be a National Match Record and an ASSRA Match Record. That would fix the problem of having two sets of competing records. In the same way you could shoot a Podunk schuetzen Society record, submit it to the ASSRA and see it become a new ASSRA Match Record. 
1878 Go back and read my original proposal. I am trying to fix this, I asked for peoples opinions because I would like to have a broad base of support. There is no reason to be P.O.’d , this isn’t a bar fight yet. I had hoped that we could have a reasonable discussion of the problem and in a discussion there is give and take. My intention was to take what I perceived as a problem and use this forum as a means to find a solution. One other thing there is no Etna Green Rifle Club. Beeson’s Range in Etna Green IN is the National range of the ASSRA it belongs to the entire membership. 

40 Rod

I do not think my suggestion is making a very big change in the current rule 7.11, only changing the naming of World Class to National and National to ASSRA. Leaving the intent of the rule as is.

What I am interpreting from the rules is that ASSRA is treating the 5 matches held at Etna Green as the Association's National Matches, so in my mind records set during those matches are to be considered as ASSRA National Records, not as United States of America National Records. Therefore only ASSRA National Records can be set at those 5 matches. I think this is the clarification that John is trying to accomplish. 

My suggestion to consider scores shot by ASSRA members at other sanctioned matches held by Affiliated Clubs be considered ASSRA Records is to eliminate the feeling that Club Records are being somewhat downgraded in stature and not recognized by the Association as a whole. 

Just so I know I am clearly stating my stance I offer the following:

If an ASSRA member shoots a 250-9 during the Hill Match at Etna Green during the Spring CF match, it should be recognized as an ASSRA National Record and ASSRA Record. 

If an ASSRA member shoots a 250-10 off-hand CF match at the June Chinquapin Schuetzenverein match it should be considered both a Club Record that Charlie will recognize and qualify for inclusion in the ASSRA listing as an ASSRA Record since it bests the previous ASSRA Record fired a month earlier but not considered an ASSRA National Record since it was not shot during the ASSRA National Match. 

This is also why I feel that the match names should be applied across ALL ASSRA sanctioned matches regardless if they are held at Etna Green, IN or San Diego, CA or Thurmond MD. It would help eliminate any confusion and facilitate record keeping. 

I do agree with Boats and S-T in principle that a record is a record, however I have shot in other organizations where what that organization considered a National Record could only be fired at their National Matches. 

Maybe Jeff_Schultz' suggestion of calling them “National Match Records” would be even more appropriate.

Craig