Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Caretaker Status (Read 12500 times)
Flatlander
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 599
Location: Warm Arizona
Joined: Apr 24th, 2004
Caretaker Status
Nov 14th, 2008 at 8:45am
Print Post  
I am at a crossroads. I have an 1885 Lo-Wall (1896 manufacture) that has been re-barreled  (C.C. Johnson) with an old re-blue-over-some minor rust on the action. The rest is still origional. As it shoots quite accurately, I am thinking of a mild re-build. I know that preserving the origional remaining single-shots is a priority of the ASSRA but as what point does one consider rebuilding vs. preserving "as is" for the next generation? Opinions please. 
  

NRA Life
ASSRA Member 3197
Charcoal Burner
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Green_Frog
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


"It ain't easy being green"
ASSRA Life #281

Posts: 4008
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Joined: Apr 18th, 2004
Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #1 - Nov 14th, 2008 at 8:53am
Print Post  
FWIW, the CC Johnson rebarrel and reblue (by whoever) dictate that the rifle is already in the status of non-original.  If the rifle is sufficiently desirable as an example of the work of CC Johnson, then it would be worth preserving as is, otherwise it is a likely candidate for rebuild, upgrade, etc.  Keep in mind that "original" is generally a term reserved for a rifle that has not been altered at all since leaving the factory. 

The foregoing gets the usual disclaimers of "YMMV" and that it is all "JMHO" but I think it pretty much represents the general tendency of the market at this time.  HTH

Regards,
Froggie
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schutzenbob
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Rheinisch-Westfälisc
hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken

Posts: 2046
Location: Nightingale, California
Joined: Oct 24th, 2005
Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #2 - Nov 14th, 2008 at 1:07pm
Print Post  
Flatlander,

I think there's a knee-jerk tendency for many of us, I'm not completely immune, to want our rifles to be "as new." Although we're all impressed when we see a rifle in fine original condition, it's usually a mistake to take an good honest gun with a few signs of age and try to make it new again, because after doing all the work, you'll often find that you would have been much better off to have just left it alone. If you must rebuild a gun, then find a old beat-up basket-case and rebuild that, you won't be harming anything and you might learn something in the process. 

Bob
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7540
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #3 - Nov 14th, 2008 at 3:09pm
Print Post  
Have said this several times before. 

While Johnson re-built single shots are interesting and shoot very well, that's about all they are good for. As collectors not many people want one.  I know because I bought one on a Ballard action that had been for sale 3 years and had it for sale myself 2 more before dumping it on a friend who shoots it bench rest as is.  It's a real ugly gun that shoots great.

If you are into it cheap enough it's a good place to start a nice rifle. Had mine been a Low Wall that's what I would have done. As it was rebuilding a fairly rough Ballard action cost more than it was worth.  The cash I got out of it went a long way toward something more suitable.

You ought to look at prices of a Ballard, Winchester or Stevens reproduction before putting a lot of cash into a re-build.  Selling off the Johnson and adding cash is going to be more satisfactory in the long run.

If it was a collector gun it would be different but not many collectors of 1930's converted single shots unless they are very well done. And have never seen a Johnson that was pretty.


Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Flatlander
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 599
Location: Warm Arizona
Joined: Apr 24th, 2004
Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #4 - Nov 14th, 2008 at 6:10pm
Print Post  
Thanks for all your opinions. Yes, the rifle is pretty plain as is but is not an ugly-duckling. At first glance,it appears to be just another well used round barrel factory lo-wall in .22 LR. I might just put her up for sale and go for broke on a newly made repro. Decisions-decisions.
  

NRA Life
ASSRA Member 3197
Charcoal Burner
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Ex Member
*****


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #5 - Nov 14th, 2008 at 8:51pm
Print Post  
I agree with Boats. I'd sell it if you want a better one, and use the funds towards that, or towards building up a wrecked one.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 11439
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #6 - Nov 14th, 2008 at 10:15pm
Print Post  
I cant stand it, I gota say something !  Its yer lowall. Doll it up. Get that guy back east to make you a striker block for it and get a Smith gain twist barrel with some unusual obscure but interesting caliber. Then get some really fancy walnut and have Gail make you a helm pattern stock for it.  Get into it man! Spend some money and make yourself one sweet shutzen rifle.  Have it engraved, maybe a big wild boar bustin through a picket fence on one side and his arse on the other side with a mangy dog latched onto his posterior. That would look so manly finished a dark black. Some fancy checkering on the stock with some Rosewood and mother of pearl inlays.  I'll turn you a super nice palm rest for nothing if you do it.  Gads!!  I cant wait to see how it turns out !!  I'll bet old Harry's looking down with a big smile.  Harry would give ya the nod on the Smith barrel. Hubelek  would love the MOP inlays.  I'll donate a Berg buttplate so to be sure and make it a one of a kind.  It's just an old lowall ! Empty canvas, go for it!!   
For Christs sake reading some of these posts reminds me of eating Swedish meatballs and Lutefisk at the Sons of Norway lodge!! 
Okay, I'm done. I meant it though.  Smiley


                                                    Joe.   Wink
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SPG
Ex Member


Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #7 - Nov 15th, 2008 at 12:07am
Print Post  
Flat,

To me, C.C. Johnson is (or will be) a collectable 'smith.

Chances are, he was the one who re-blued the action when he re-barreled the rifle.

If it shoots decently and hasn't been really butchered, I'd leave it alone. It is a piece of our single shot history...for better or for worse.

Don't listen to Joe...he just wants a flashy rifle so he can pick up chicks.

Just my opinion.

Steve
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 11439
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #8 - Nov 15th, 2008 at 12:19am
Print Post  
Whats the average age of the current schutzen groupie chick crowd right now?  I'm only 55 Steve!   Grin  
I'm bringin my slug gun for show and tell, dont forget my Stevens. And bring your 35/40 reamer. I need to cut a chamber in that special order Smith .35.   Mother of pearl and schutzen rifles, well,----- they were meant for each other.  Wink

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
                                            Joe,
« Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2008 at 2:00am by westerner »  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7540
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #9 - Nov 15th, 2008 at 7:18am
Print Post  
Flatlander,  Without seeing a photo I assumed your Johnson was one he stocked or had someone re-stock. If your stock is original Stevens and the only Johnson modification was re-barreling I would not alter the rifle.  Question in my mind was what percent of the rifle is original and what has been altered.  The Johnson Ballard I once owned was Original frame only, everything else had been altered or changed.

As SPG says Johnson's may become collectible in there own right.  Wonder what the better investment would be ? Johnson single shots or the stock market.  And which one would do best under the new administration.  You might want to hold on to that rifle.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Flatlander
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 599
Location: Warm Arizona
Joined: Apr 24th, 2004
Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #10 - Nov 15th, 2008 at 9:54am
Print Post  
Thanks all again for the replies. It seems there is not a consensus of opinion. Steve may be right and it may be a collector piece at some time. 
boats: the Lo-Wall is 100% origional minus the barrel and re-blue. Wood is all correct. I may post a photo if I can figure how to do it again.

I received a very nice reply from Jerry Johnson last spring and the card he has on it says the barrel is a .22 Buhmiller "to the same conour as the origional" . No mention as to the re-blue so who knows when/where that was done.
  

NRA Life
ASSRA Member 3197
Charcoal Burner
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SPG
Ex Member


Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #11 - Nov 15th, 2008 at 10:43am
Print Post  
Joe,

I'll bring the .35-44 reamer, the Stevens, and the cards. You bring your poker playin' hat...and some money. We have you checked into the Del Monico...your bedroll goes in the southwest corner.

Flat,

Your rifle sounds too good to mess with to me...and if you have some history on it, even more so. Maybe an article dissecting the particulars would be good in the Journal and start a mad rush to collect C.C. Johnson rifles?

Any good 'smith eventually becomes collectible and the Johnson's I have owned all shot very well and exhibited very competent gunsmithing. One could, without really affecting the value of the gun, re-case the action and age it back, but I still say that it's part of the package and shows what C.C. typically did on a re-barrel.

I've seen some work by Peterson and Pope that left a little to be desired in the way of cosmetics but just try to tell the owners that they ought to refinish!

Gute Ziele,

Steve
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tenx
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 385
Joined: Feb 23rd, 2008
Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #12 - Nov 16th, 2008 at 10:58pm
Print Post  
Boats,

  Oh My! You mean my CC Johnson HW in .22 RF with a close coupled set triggers is ugly in your eyes?  Smiley Actually it looks like it just came out of the factory. The only "ugly" thing about it is he/someone soldered a sling swivel on the barrel. Must have been a club(?) target gun at one time as on the inside of the foearms barrel channel it's got Aurora Co. stamped.

  Sorry! Couldn't resist that.  Smiley  I'll agree with you and say I've seen some real ugly rebuilds. I would suspect mine was re-blued when CC worked on it, but the only way you can tell it from original is the liner and CC's name stamped on it. Still shoots better than I can hold it.

PETE
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
xxgrampa
Ex Member


Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #13 - Nov 17th, 2008 at 5:13am
Print Post  
cards,, who said cards??? when and where??  i'm getting too long in the tooth to win money shooting.. but can still pull a card from the bottom now and then..

..ttfn..grampa..
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7540
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Caretaker Status
Reply #14 - Nov 17th, 2008 at 7:50am
Print Post  
Pete,   

Did not mean to offend, everybody's baby is pretty.   From what I have seen Johnson was not a stock maker, must have sent guns out to be stocked.  My Johnson Ballard was a small bore prone rifle and showed the typical hacked up stock that so many competitors use.  In fact my Anschutz SB prone rifle has been butchered up pretty good too.

And then there is Chuck Blenders Miller.  Testament to Bondo and Duct tape. And he can out shoot any of us with it.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint