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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) breech seating ?? (Read 15889 times)
boats
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Re: breech seating ??
Reply #30 - Nov 7th, 2008 at 8:54am
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We are way off topic so this will end it for me.

Actually my experience is limited since the CG only used small guns, Stand corrected on the 5 inchers.   I avoided the Big Cutters which had a 5 inch gun successfully so no direct experence with them

Our 3 inch was on a ocean going tug, the gun was WW I surplus and given to the Coast guard in 1937 when the boat was built.   Not that I am that old just the small service always used old hand-me-downs.  It was like a big Borchart for sure. 

We had a table of fire for elevation and distance. Mount had an azimuth around the base.   Idea was to get a compass bearing on the target and distance off the radar. What with the boat rolling in a swell it was  near impossible to hit anything.  We tried all day once to sink a derelict barge that was a hazard to navigation with no effect.  Just about dark the Navy shows up and sinks it in dramatic fashion with a burst from some big gun.  Not many smiles on our boat over that.

Have studied the big ones though. Correct, steel projectile and a copper driving band loads with bags of powder.  Around here we had big coastal guns on either Cape, Henry and Charles.  When I was a kid they were still in place, 16 inchers just like on a battle ship. Bunkers are still there and from time to time there is talk about restoring one. Fire control tower still stands a few blocks from my house.  Some of those guns are still in storage I understand.

Leadball I suspect in the North Carolina Demo they did not ram the projectile home since it would be hard to get back out.  You ought to Visit the Wisconsin once time. She is the ultimate development of the Battleship. Open to the public now, was on the Navy's list but they just transfered her over to a foundation which will open up more of the ship and enhance the displays.  On the list to open is the engine room and big guns.

Boats
« Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2008 at 9:05am by boats »  
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tim_s
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Re: breech seating ??
Reply #31 - Nov 10th, 2008 at 12:16pm
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Gentlemen I offer a thought and would appreciate any comments. The basis for this has it's origins in the rimfire world but it seems to make some sense. First, we now know the relative importance of having a chamber cut in perfect alignment to the bore. Today even with modern tooling, match barrels, and lots more knowledge[theoretically] it would surprise many how often that not to be the case. I suspect brecch seating would tend to reduce the issues of a less than perfectly centered chamber. Second, I would also tend to suspect that loaded rounds are often, less than coincentric. Modern benchrest loads assembled with the best hand tools in the world sometimes come up short in this regard. I'm not aware of any information regarding the technique of neck turning a case in the black powder era and might be one of the biggest reasons for using a single indexed case. The point is that in the .22 world I have been involved is some interesting testing relating to rimnfire ammunition coicentricity. It is thought by some that with a soft lead slug,even minimally missaligned, it will not tend to center itself upon initial ignition but will deform more to one side than the other and start down the bore less stable. With larger but soft slugs that single shots utilize often, I see no reason why some of the same principles might not exist here and might also be reduced with a breach seated slug. Cannot prove anything at all but always struck me as logical.
  

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screwloosetc
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Re: breech seating ??
Reply #32 - Nov 10th, 2008 at 1:48pm
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Tim
My contention is a properly turned case has a better chance of aligning a bullet than a bullet seater. my bullets are indexed and seated with a tool made from the reamer that chambered the rifle and are checked for concentricity with a dial indicator. can u do that with the best of bullet seaters? My case is a O tollerance bullet seater with controlled neck tension.
We need to start another thread on this topic
Tom
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: breech seating ??
Reply #33 - Nov 10th, 2008 at 2:14pm
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Quote:

We need to start another thread on this topic
Tom



Please do... I'm finding this discussion very interesting!

Paul F.
  
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tim_s
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Re: breech seating ??
Reply #34 - Nov 10th, 2008 at 2:46pm
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Tom, I could'nt disagree with the case turning but it does not address the potential of the misaligned chamber-bore.
    After I posted and went back and read lots of the other BR related posts I think the chamber- bore issue might be among the biggest areas circomvented to some degree by breech seating.
    The historic BR stuff is accurate, no doubt. I still shoot BR and I would add a comment to the current status of the sport. Although there is still a lot of loading done with bullets being "jammed" into the lands with a loaded round, this would appear to involve issues more dependent with how modern powders build pressure and load tuning than any alignment issue. As a matter of fact with the popularity of many double radius bullets and short throats in guns there are a lot of guys that no longer jam load these 6PPC's but "jump" the bullet as much as .007"-.010" and make no mistake about it that would be ill advised without perfectly centered chambers. I do not know if that reinforces my earlier post but it propably does not hurt. Who knows, the breech seating may stabilize pressures and bring down average velocity disparities. Anybody shoot the same load breech seated or not over a Chrono to see what the ES would be?
  

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tim_s
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Re: breech seating ??
Reply #35 - Nov 10th, 2008 at 2:52pm
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boats wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 7:27pm:
Leadball I was in the Shallow Water Navy the ones with White Hulls. Biggest gun I shot was a 3 inch 50 single shot falling block built in 1918.  

However have been on several Battleships looking around. First time when I was a kid and since on the Museum ships.  They used a hydraulic ram to to push the projectile into the rifling, and loaded bags of powder behind it to suit the intended result.  I also think but don't know in the Navy anything over a 5 inch was breech seated.  I do know the 5 inch guns were cartridge. Coast Guard had some of those on the big Cutters.

As a point of intrest the big army coastal defence guns were near clones of 16 inch naval guns and also breech seated.

We have the Wisconsin here on display and it's a nice tour.

Boats



I'm pretty sure that this has less to do with any kind of accuracy and more to do with the fact that the charge weight could be varied based on mission, something not possible with fixed ammo.
  

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