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dick_norton
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.22 rimfire in "centerfire" matches
Oct 19th, 2008 at 12:20pm
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If a person chose to shoot a .22 rimfire in say the Hudson match at 200
yards would that score count? Seems that it should since that shooter is
accepting a handicap i.e., wind.

fred
  
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Jim_Borton
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Re: .22 rimfire in "centerfire" matches
Reply #1 - Oct 19th, 2008 at 12:27pm
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Not by ASSRA Rules! Not legal!
  

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boats
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Re: .22 rimfire in "centerfire" matches
Reply #2 - Oct 19th, 2008 at 5:12pm
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WSA I understands allows rim fires for 200 yard offhand events.  Memory only Steve Garbe shot a very high score once with a rim fire in the 100 shot match.  

Wintertime up in Pennsylvania the Conestoga club shoots Rim and Center Fire Gallery matches.  Rifles are squadded separate but to my knowledge the 22 rifles always shoot higher scores.  I know when I shoot those matches my squib center fire scores are near but not higher than my 22 scores. Same range target rifle & sights, switch barrel.  They score the targets for you so I am not sure if they use the same standard, Leaded Edge both matches,

While it may seem a rim fire rifle is at a disadvantage  under the right conditions it could have a significant advantage over center fire rifles.  WSA again as I understand there rules does not allow sighters or re-shoots of misses so the spotting disadvantage of a rim fire at 200 yard distance is neutral.

Pure accuracy with no wind to consider rim fires are the equal of center fire rifles . 22's with quality  ammunition  there is no possibility of "operator" error. Less fatigue loading and shooing too.  I suspect that's there advantage indoors gallery.

I don't know of any offhand full distance matches won by Rim fire single shots over Center Fire rifles.  ASSRA we shoot the Dell Hudson match. Dr Hudson's record match as revived by Charlie Dell and like Jim says under ASSRA rules which prohibit Rim Fires.  Charlie was opposed to rim fires and set the match up that way, his reasoning was it would reduce competition in center fire matches,  and I think he was correct.   Anyway one time if conditions were right I would like to give the 100 shot match a try with a 22. In practice that is,

Boats

« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2008 at 5:27pm by boats »  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: .22 rimfire in "centerfire" matches
Reply #3 - Oct 19th, 2008 at 6:14pm
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if I understand it correctly you could shoot the Dell-Hudson 100 shot offhand 200 yard match with a 22 rimfire if you wanted to.  its just that the score would not be enterable. 
 
HOWEVER---At the EtnaGreen Fall and Spring 22 rimfire-only matches we pretty much shoot the full run of regular matches both at 200 AND 100 yards (on the scaled down targets at 100 of course).  I believe you should be able to shoot an official 200 yard 100 shot match there in competition.  You would not be shooting shoulder to shoulder with the centerfires within a centerfire match but you could see how your scores compared with other matches. 
  I have been told that next year the RF-only matches will be shot on Friday in addition to the Saturday/halfday Sunday of the past few years.  (we have had unofficial side matches on Friday on occasion if attendence merited it).  An extr full day of shooting may make it worth while for some to make the trip who have been reluctant to spend the time, trouble, and $$ for no more than a day and a half of shooting.

  

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dick_norton
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Re: .22 rimfire in "centerfire" matches
Reply #4 - Oct 19th, 2008 at 6:53pm
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I can understand the early ASSRA supporters fearing diminished competition i.e. allowing rimfires. But times change. I believe allowing
rimfires might stir up some new interest and gain some new members.
How does one go about suggesting to the Board that such a change be
made?

fred
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: .22 rimfire in "centerfire" matches
Reply #5 - Oct 19th, 2008 at 7:59pm
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1st, you might do a search here on the ASSRA site for other posts on this topic.  It has come up before and been discussed at some length in the past.

2nd then if you want to make a well reasoned out suggestion to the ASSRA BOD you could address them in writing.  However it probably would get sent to the Rules/competition committee for their evaluation and referral back to the BOD as a whole.  It might simply be more efficient to make your suggestion directly to the members of the Rules/Competition committee to start with.

JMHO now.

  I suspect that with the success of the 22rf only matches as well as the increasing number of shooters who do use the 22s in the regular matches where they are permitted (22 single entry 200 yd BR, 100shot 100yd OH miniHudson, and the 50yd offhand matches) that they would be reluctant to open up the standard centerfire matches to rimfire rifles.   At the EG shoots I have seen more than just a few shooters initially showed up for the 22 matches who then start participating in the regular centerfire matches with appropriate equipment.  I'd guess that they figure that the current program seems to be doing what they hoped it would and want to let it run as is for a while before making any new substantive changes in the program

As to using the 22rf within centerfire matches.  At least at EG I just don't see it as a real practical thing.  WAY too often during the regular centerfire matches you can only shoot a decent 200 yd single entry BR 22rf if you catch maybe the 1st relay of the morning---and early in that one.  Otherwise wind and mirage are just too big a obstacle. Usually there is just enough of both to kill any hope of doing well with the 22rf, but not enough to mess up the guys shooting the bigger heavier centerfires.
Now during the 22rf-only matches it doesn't matter as much since we are all playing on a reasonably level playing field
  

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boats
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Re: .22 rimfire in "centerfire" matches
Reply #6 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 6:28am
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Personally I would not like to see Charlie Dells match altered.  It would be interesting however to allow rim fires in 200 yard offhand re or single entry matches. Perhaps even establish a new challenge match center against rim fire.

One thing that would have to be worked out is how to score the target.  Leaded edge gives advantage to a large center fire. If you make it center of the hole the Schuetzen Master would need plug gauges in all calibers to score the match.

Of course this is up to the individual Schuetzen Master.  Only needs Etna Green approval if shot at Etna Green. Local clubs can and do set up any course of fire they chose.  I may ask our Club to consider allowing a rim-center challenge match

Personal prediction, Some "Ace" would win the match with a rim fire. and the also ran's would handicap themselves for a long time thinking it would work for them.  Most Dell Hudson matches are won by 32 cals and it's not likely to change whatever the rules.

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Re: .22 rimfire in "centerfire" matches
Reply #7 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 8:30am
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What boats said!!  Cool

Froggie
  
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leadball
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Re: .22 rimfire in "centerfire" matches
Reply #8 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 8:37am
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       The reason for the 22 rimfire "only" matches was to give the rimfire shooter their own match, and it seems to be working very well, so why would we want to "muddy' the waters.   leadball
  
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