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Normal Topic One Scope on More Than One Rifle (Read 5705 times)
creedmoormatch
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One Scope on More Than One Rifle
Oct 10th, 2008 at 8:24pm
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Like most shooters, I have one externally adjustable Lyman Super Target Spot scope with more than one rifle, each of which has scope mounting blocks installed.

In order to switch the scope from rifle to rifle at a match, I have had to keep a note book wherein I record the particular scope setting for the various distances for each rifle after I zero it.  I am interested in knowing what the standard practice is in the sport for these notations.  For instance, the Lyman scope is adjustable for elevation and windage with "clicks" that are 1/4 M.O.A. per click.  Given that, the knobs have a graduated scale with lines and then every fifth line then has an inscribed diget.  What do the lines represent?  What do the numbers represent?  I guess there most have been a handbook that was shipped from Lyman with their scopes explaining all of this, it's just that I've never seen one.

Any thing you can offer here would be appreciated.
  
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whitey hanson
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Re: One Scope on More Than One Rifle
Reply #1 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 8:43pm
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Someone on the site has a copy of that manual.And was very kind and emailed a copy to anyone that needed it.Unfortunaly mine went with a computer crash.Or I would send you a copy. Whitey
  
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mes
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Re: One Scope on More Than One Rifle
Reply #2 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 9:41pm
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I think you read the lines the same way you would read a micrometer. At least that is the way I do it.  Its just a handy way to interpet the lines.
  

Martin Stenback
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pmcfall
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Re: One Scope on More Than One Rifle
Reply #3 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:30pm
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I have an electronic version of the manual for the Lyman STS and I have emailed it to a few members.  It doesn't give instructions on reading the scale for elevation and windage, but i think they are laid off in increments of 25 clicks.  Therefore, it is easy to return to a previous setting.  

If anyone wants a copy just email me at mcfall@ponyexpress.net and I'll get one out to you.  I also have Unertl and Fecker.  I'll be off list from oct 12 to the 24th, so if I don't send it right away that is the reason.
Phil
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: One Scope on More Than One Rifle
Reply #4 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:41pm
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Thanks Phil for your offer to E-mail a copy of th Lyman owner's manual pertaining to their Super Target Spot scope.

I have put my E-mail out on the wire to you, and do appreciate your taking the time to help me out with this matter

Creed Moor
  
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boats
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Re: One Scope on More Than One Rifle
Reply #5 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 6:59am
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I use a hybrid system to record sight settings, same on click adjustable powder measure, Record the number for full value then add + clicks

Example  STS on #4 rimfire 100 yards El 108+3  W 169+0 

Harrells with 4227 32/40 200 gr.  27+2

Reason is all the micrometers don't have the same number of clicks or graduations between number values.  One system reduces errors.  

Boats
  
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tenx
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Re: One Scope on More Than One Rifle
Reply #6 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 9:48am
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  Here's how I've got the Lyman STS scope figured out.

  As close as I can figure each click is more like 1/3rd MOA rather than the more common 1/4". Others I know that use this scope say about the same.

  The way the markings are set up are fairly standard for all external scopes. One click represents the movement in portions of a MOA. On the STS one complete rotation, or 25 clicks, will move the knob up one of the line marks on the barrel. Four times around or 100 clicks will move the knob up to the number one on the barrel.... and so on.

  This makes it easy to record the number for when you move the scope from gun to gun. It never seems to come back exactly to dead center but is always close enuf so a few clicks one way or the other will center you up.

  Which brings up an interesting point. In those spy/assassination movies I always get a laugh when the shooter assembles his gun from several pieces in a duffel bag, puts the scope on, and then shoots the victim between the eyes. Gimme a break!

PETE
  
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joeb33050
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Re: One Scope on More Than One Rifle
Reply #7 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 12:02pm
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TELESCOPIC SIGHTS
     Telescopic sights may be categorized as "Outside Adjustable" and "Internally Adjustable."
     Outside adjustable telescopic sights include Lyman Targetspot and Super Targetspot, Unertl, Litschert, Fecker and Davis brands. These have adjustments built into the mounts that are (mostly) click adjustable and clearly readable so that settings may be recorded. They have adjustments on the rear for focusing the crosshairs, and on the front (Fecker in the center) for eliminating parallax. It is entirely practical to move these sights from rifle to rifle, re-setting the sights each time. 
     These sights attach to "scope blocks" on the rifle barrel, which are most often 7.2 inches on center.
     The adjusting knobs are marked in 25 divisions, and there is a click between each division, so there are 50 clicks per revolution of the knob. Each click moves the telescope one-half of one thousandth of an inch, .0005". Divide 3600 inches in 100 yards by 7.2 inches center distance between scope blocks and you get 500. Then multiply 500 by .0005" per click and you get .250" or a quarter inch or about a quarter minute of angle shift in bullet impact per click. 
     Sometimes scope blocks are mounted on centers other than 7.2 inches, and bullet movement at 100 yards varies as shown below:

     Scope Block Centers                        100 Yard Movement per Click
           2.4 inch                              .75 inch
           3.0  "                                    .60   "
           3.6  "                                    .50   "
           4.5  "                                    .40   "      
           6.0  "                                    .30   "
           7.2  "                                    .25   "      
           9.0  "                                    .20   "
           12   "                                    .15   "

Trouble with a Lyman Super Targetspot
     I was working with an M54 Winchester in 30 WCF = 30/30 and a Lyman 30X Super Targetspot (STS) in the summer of 2005 when I ran into trouble. While groups were averaging about an inch and a quarter, every now and then a shot was missing. After taking advice and shooting at the center of a big target, I found that sometimes a shot showed up from three to ten inches low at 100 yards. These strangers were a puzzle.
     I cleaned the gun without finding anything unusual in the barrel. 
     This is an old telescopic sight, most of the blue has been replaced by that much-desired "patina". I got after that patina with some 0000 steel wool and oil. Nothing looked any different when that was complete, the patina was still there. (Every time I shoot using a telescope, I wipe the scope down with an oily cloth.)
     Then I took the rear mount , the one with the adjustment knobs, off the scope and cleaned it. I took it apart, took the spring loaded 225 degree doodad off and apart, took the adjustment knobs off and the Chinese-character looking metal parts out. I cleaned and oiled the dickens out of the parts, and put it back together-not too hard. A toothbrush and some 3 in 1 oil and some clean rags did the job. There was quite a bit of stuff in there, dirt or old oil or ?
     Back at the range many times since, many shots fired and not a stranger to be seen.
     I think it was the scope, I think that some speck/s of stuff got in the workings and caused the very low shots. 
     Another problem with the Lyman Super Targetspot
     I record the sight settings with information on the gun, load, distance and scope or iron sights, in my notebook. I have noticed that I have made many one-revolution mistakes when recording settings on a Lyman Super Targetspot. 
Now I sort of understand why this happens and it's because of the design of the micrometer. I can only advise you to fiddle with the micrometer a while and get a good notion of what various settings look like and be careful when recording settings. It isn't you. 

From the book.
joe b.
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: One Scope on More Than One Rifle
Reply #8 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 7:59pm
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Thanks  JOEB33050 :
for sending along your personal experience with the Lyman S.T.S. scope.  As a matter of fact, my initial question for the forum was prompted by exactly the experience that you sited at the close of your above response, that is, the "one revolution mistake".  I attend two day shoots and record my scope settings in my bench notebook.  When I return the second day and reinstall my scope and make my center fire adjustments (Elev. and Wind.) because the scope was last shot on the rim fire rifle, I'm not even on the paper.     Sad  So I shoot up 1/2 of my ammunition getting sighted in again; buy another target and post it; and have wasted a couple of relays before I can even shoot for score.  Tongue

Creed Moor
  
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vbull
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Re: One Scope on More Than One Rifle
Reply #9 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 9:20pm
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I have a couple of scopes that get swapped to several different rifles.  Although I record the settings for each scope on each rifle, mistakes can happen.  Just to verify windage, I "bore sight" the scope by opening the breech and looking at the target thru the bore.  Then raise my head and look where the scope is pointing.  If you are off one full turn, it is very easy to see.  Frank M.
  
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