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texasmac
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Evaluation of Leatherwood 18" 6-power scope
Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:26pm
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Initial (unfired) evaluation of the Leatherwood/Hi-Lux 18” 6-power scope with mounts & blocks (Model # M634181)

Scope specifications: 18” long, ¾” tube diameter, 6X power, 17mm objective, 12’ field of view at 100 yds, 4.5” eye relief, weight 18 oz (see more on this below), 5.8mm exit pupil, no parallax adjustment.  All air-glass optic surfaces are fully multi-coated for maximum light transmission.  Parallax is set for 10’ to infinity.  The reticle is a fine crosshair.  The scope is shockproof, waterproof and nitrogen filled.

Opening the shipping box I found the following:
1) The scope, with mounts installed, metal protective end caps and scope blocks, came double sealed in plastic bags (sealed in a clear plastic bag inside a sealed bubble wrap bag).  Also included is an 8-page instruction manual and a cheap, small square piece of felt cloth to clean lenses.
2) The scope, end caps, mounts and scope blocks were covered with lightweight oil.
3) Only markings on the scope (Wm MALCOLM over 6X) are located 1&1/4” in front of the eyepiece locking ring.

To remove the front and rear mounts from the scope required 1st removing the adjustable eyepiece and locking ring.  The scope has as inner sealed glass lens in front of the eyepiece to maintain the hermetic seal and allow eyepiece adjustment and removal.

I weighed everything on a very accurate postage scale.  The results were:
1) Scope, end caps, mounts and bases (no base screws) – 19.6 oz (1 lb 3.6 oz)
2) Scope without mounts, end caps or bases – 12.8 oz
3) Both protective end caps – 2 oz

SCOPE
The exterior surface finishes of the all-metal (possibly steel) scope tube, objective lens housing, eyepiece and eyepiece locking ring are acceptable.  The blued metal finish has a few very light machining marks in a couple of areas.  The adjustable eyepiece and end cap threads are rough but functional.  All were coated with a light oil, including the inside threads for the end caps, which were very close to the objective and ocular (eyepiece) lenses.  To eliminate the possibility of oil getting on the lenses, I gently removed all the oils in the threads with Q-tips and solvent, being cautious not to get solvent on the lenses.  I wiped the scope surface oils off the exterior surfaces with the cheap felt lens cloth and threw it away.
INITIAL EVALUATING OF OPTICS CLARITY WAS EXCELLENT.

FRONT MOUNT & LOCKING RING
Functional.  Blued metal surfaces are rough with lots of casting and machining marks.
The mount is designed with a locking screw to attach to a standard 60-degree dovetail block (base).  The separate locking ring works with the front mount to prevent the scope from rotating or moving fore and aft but allows the scope to pivot for windage and elevation adjustments.
Note – I did purchase a sliding lock ring (Part # 17SLR - sold separately), which allows the scope to slide out of battery under recoil.  It replaces the standard lock ring.  The construction and metal surfaces are similar to the front mount.

REAR CAGE-TYPE MOUNT WITH WINDAGE AND ELEVATION ADJUSTMENTS
Functional.  Blued metal surfaces are rough with lots of casting and machining marks.
The scope contact surfaces of the turret knobs are very rough and will definitely scratch or score the scope surface during adjustments.  One complete turn of the knobs provides 0.020” of scope adjustment.  The mount is designed with a locking screw to attach to a standard 60-degree dovetail block (base).  To contradict an earlier statement I made in another posting, to call it a micrometer-type mount would be a misnomer since there are no micrometer-type scales on the turret knob housings to use as a reference.  In other words, if the turret knobs are turned and the number of rotations is not noted, it would be almost impossible to return the knob to a previous setting.  Clearly, at least in my mind, the mounts are made for recreational shooting or hunting, where the scope is adjusted for a specific distance and the knobs locked in place with the locking rings.  Even in this case I would definitely file and polish the ends of the turret knobs to eliminate or reduce scope surface damage.

DOVETAIL STYLE MOUNTING BLOCKS (BASES)
The two identical standard 60-degree type dovetail, mounting blocks are reasonably well machined, blued and finished.  The blocks are ½” (actually 0.490”) wide on top with 60-degree shoulders, and are 1.285” long.  The two mounting holes in each block are spaced 14.2mm (0.559”) apart and will accept standard 6-48 or similar size screws.  The blocks are designed with a half moon slot on one side and a Posa slot on the other side to also fit Unertl, Fecker or similar type mounts

BOTTOM LINE:  FOR SILHOUETTE COMPETITION, KEEP THE SCOPE AND REPLACE THE MOUNTS WITH UNERTL, FECKER OR SIMILAR HIGH-QUALITY MOUNTS.

As a final note, keep in mind that I have not evaluated the scope under actual firing condition or in competition.  The lack of parallax adjustment may or may not be an issue.

Wayne

PS, for a related thread on this subject click on the following
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« Last Edit: Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:08am by texasmac »  

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Re: Evaluation of Leatherwood 18" 6-power scope
Reply #1 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 8:40am
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While editing an up comming article on building a scope I did some research on after market scope mounts. The only contact that was origionally in the article were for Leatherwood and after reading comments on this forum I decided that I would add some alternatives to what have been reported to be cheap and poorly made scope mounts. I added MVAs address for Malcombe type mounts. I also called Gill Parsons to see if he was still making the excellent Malcombe style mounts that I had purchased from him a couple of years ago. He has the parts to make up the Malcombe mounts and he also has a run of Stevens Number 1 style mounts made up. These are both Quality mounts not cheap Chinese knock offs made from pot metal. They are a quality product and the price reflects it. 

40 Rod

  
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Re: Evaluation of Leatherwood 18" 6-power scope
Reply #2 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 9:38am
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I have to wonder what it's going to cost to get a Leatherwood up to speed compared to buying a used Lyman STS or Unertil. Or even a new MVA.

Unertils were crazy price wise but perhaps the slowing economy will bring it back down to reason.  I Bought a BV 20 X for 600 this year and have seen another for sale same price. 

600 is about the price of a new quality target scope, Leopold for example. It's not too much to have in a good external adjustment scope thats going to hold it's resale value well.

Boats
  
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Re: Evaluation of Leatherwood 18" 6-power scope
Reply #3 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:45pm
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Boats,

Point well taken (to some degree).   

Optics Planet is selling the scope for $279 + shipping (a great price), Midway for $300 + shipping.  As noted in my evaluation, for hunting or recreational shooting the mounts should work fine (after filing and polishing the ends of the adjustment knobs).  So the scope is well worth the price.

For serious NRA sanctioned silhouette competition (my possible plans for it), certainly one has to consider the additional cost of high-quality replacement mounts.  I was able to purchase the scope for only a few bucks less than the Optics Planet price.  I also have a nice Unertl rear mount which cost me around $100.  After all is said and done, I should have a little less than $500 in the whole setup, about 1/2 the price of a MVA.

With the thought that I could also use the Leatherwood on a Browning M1885 hunting rifle, I was willing to take a chance due to the price.  I may still pick up one of the short (23") MVA scopes and mounts for silhouette competition.

Wayne
  

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Re: Evaluation of Leatherwood 18" 6-power scope
Reply #4 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 4:56pm
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Tex

Agree Hunting or informal shooting it's a good deal. For serious target competition particularly when any power is allowed like in ASSRA matches I am pretty sure Leatherwoods are not the way to go.  Equation is a bit different with BPC limited power rules.  I will say that match puts a high premium on repeatablity of sight settings, Must be right on with little time to make adjustments. It's much more important than power.  The Unertil mount ought to fix that problem.

I bench marked against a Unertil BV at 600, If you go to a Lyman or more likely a Redfield 3200 they probably even lower priced. Unetil 12 x are less expensive too. 

Having said that have gone wrong on used Unertils before, thought they were OK when purchased and ended up spending hundreds on repairs.  Only thing though they are ready currency if you ever want to sell one. And hard to lose money on.  Of course most Unertils are too powerfull for NRA rules BPCS.  They can be bosted at reasonable cost, wonder if they can be reverse bosted, power reduced.

Anyway enjoyed your post and look forward to range test

Boats
  
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Re: Evaluation of Leatherwood 18" 6-power scope
Reply #5 - Oct 19th, 2008 at 2:59pm
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Evaluation of the Leatherwood 18” 6-power scope (Model # M634181) UNDER FIRING CONDITIONS 

After additional considerations I decided to mount the 18” 6-power Leatherwood on a 50 caliber caplock muzzleloader I used for local competition many years ago and plan on using this season to take a whitetail.  It’s a customized version of the Thompson Center Hawken rifle and my aged eyes have been having a hard time focusing in on the front sight.  Another reason for mounting it on the TC was I wanted to try it out prior to possibly using it on one of my Browning BPCRs.

I drilled and tapped the top barrel flat for mount spacing of 7.2”.  The Leatherwood scope blocks worked fine with 6x48 screws.  I decided to use the front mount setup, which allowed the scope to pivot sufficiently for windage and elevation adjustments, but held the scope from sliding under recoil.  After 50 or so rounds and adjusting the scope, I must say I was impressed and quite satisfied with the whole setup as a hunting scope setup.  The scope image was very bright and crisp with no distortions, and the plain crosshairs were sharp.  The front and rear Leatherwood mounts worked great.  The rear windage and elevation adjustments worked fine and stayed in place.  Once I had the scope centered I locked the rear mount elevation and windage adjustments with the knurled finger-locking nut and nothing moved during subsequent shots.

By the way, the load was 90 grains of Goex 3X behind a spit-patched 177 grain round ball.  The average muzzle velocity was 1856 fps.  The rifle & scope weigh 9 lb 11 oz.  All the shooting was at 50 yds and I plan another trip to set it dead on at 75 yds.  Anything past that would be stretching it for taking a whitetail due to the drop off in muzzle energy with round ball ammo.

Therefore, under actual firing conditions I reiterate my initial opinion.  The scope and mounts are fine for hunting.  But the mounts are not suitable for BPCR silhouette or Creedmoor competition due to the lack of side scales (micrometer type), which does not allow accurate and repeatable adjustment settings.

Before I forget, I did not note any parallax affects or problems at 50 yds, but will evaluate parallax out to much longer distances on the next trip to the range.

Based on the performance of the scope under rigid mounting conditions I am reconsidering my earlier requirement of a sliding scope setup and may mount another identical 18” Leatherwood on my Browning with a rigid front mount and a de-clicked Unertl rear mount.

Wayne

By the way, Boats, you said "Of course most Unertils are too powerfull for NRA rules BPCS".  There are no power limitations on BPCR silhouette scopes, but there are physical design limitations.  The complete rules are:
1) Maximum weight (rifle) weight with scope – 15 pounds.
2) No length or power limitation on the scope.  Scope tube body to be ¾” or less in diameter and any ocular or objective lenses, adjusting or assembly rings to be less than 1” in diameter.
3) No internal adjustments for windage or elevation.
4) Mounts are to be of a traditional style of the period, and contain the windage and elevation adjustments for the scope in either, or both, the front or rear mounts.  No click adjustments in the mount.  Either dove tail mounting or scope block mounting is allowed.
The NRA Rifle Silhouette Rules handbook further states that, Original scope mounts of either the Cataract or Malcolm style or variations thereof, or replicas or derivatives of either style, are allowed provided the replica or derivative conforms to the criteria of rule 4) above.
« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2008 at 3:14pm by texasmac »  

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Re: Evaluation of Leatherwood 18" 6-power scope
Reply #6 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 9:00am
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Thank you for the excellent evaluation of the Leatherwood scope. It sounds like it would be an excellent scope to put on a .22 that already has Unertl blocks on it to use as a small game rifle.
Does the scope lock into the half moon cuts on the blocks provided or does it lock into the posa cuts?
On using Unertl type rear mounts for BPCR, I played a little with a 1 1/4 10X Unertl on my 38-55 with black powder and found that I ran out of elevation very fast.
Someone else had posted that the fine adjustable Leatherwood mounts for their longer scopes are from a soft or perhaps unheatreated steel. I am wondering if having something done like ion nitriding done, which is essentially some kind of low temp case hardening, might help to solve the problem with those mounts. Maybe also setting the scope up to slide in the mounts would lessen the chance of the recoil doing damage to the mount.
Sam
  
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Re: Evaluation of Leatherwood 18" 6-power scope
Reply #7 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 11:24am
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Sam,
The Leatherwood mounts lock into the half moon slots.

Click on the link below for a thread discussing the adjustable range of the Leatherwood mounts.  I have a de-clicked rear Unertl mount with a little more adjustment range.  It should work fine for silhouette with either a 9", or better yet, a 7.2" mount spacing.  I'm seriously considering getting another 18" 6X leatherwood and using the Unertl rear mount with the Leatherwood on a Browning BPCR for silhouette.

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Wayne
« Last Edit: Oct 28th, 2008 at 11:31am by texasmac »  

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Re: Evaluation of Leatherwood 18" 6-power scope
Reply #8 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 11:52am
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After another trip to the range this last weekend, I'm still very pleased with the Leatherwood scope and mounts on my .50 caliber caplock muzzleloader.   

After the initial range evaluation I had slid the scope and mounts off the blocks to facilitate dunking and cleaning the muzzleloader barrel in a bucket of hot soapy water.  I also took the opportunity to check the blocks and mounts closely for any wear or damage.  There was none.  After reinstalling the scope and mounts I wondered how well it would hold the original settings.  More shooting at the range this past weekend indicated the settings had not moved.

I did take the time to evaluate parallax to some extent.  By holding the rifle and scope in a solid fixed position and moving my eyes around the ocular lens, I could see some (definitely no more than 1/4") movement on the target at 50 yds.  At 100 yds or more I could not discern any crosshair movement due to parallax.

Wayne
  

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Re: Evaluation of Leatherwood 18" 6-power scope
Reply #9 - Dec 17th, 2008 at 6:19pm
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Just thought I'd post an update.
=====================

I've taken the .50 muzzle loader and 18" Leatherwood on several hunting trips and have shot the rifle with the scope mounted many time between trips. I've also removed the scope & mounts several times for cleaning the rifle. So far no problems. After remounting, the scope shot to the same point of aim and I'm very pleased with the clarity of the optics. As indicated in the earlier thread, I'll most likely get an identical 18" scope and mount it on my Browning BPCR with a de-clicked Unertl rear mount. I only wish they'd make an 8X or 10X version, but neither does MVA as far as I know.

Wayne
  

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