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Magnum_Wheel_Man
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can sand bags be competitive today ???
Sep 26th, 2008 at 10:38am
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so... I've never shot bench rest, but I do shoot off a "bench" alot, & I guess Ijust don't get it...

mechanical adjust front rests on 1800's rifles shooting cast bullets... something just doesn't seem right about that... I think I get pretty good groups (but then I don't compete )... are these rest allowed in all classes, or can regular old "sand bags" still be competitive ???

I guess I was taught how to "properly" use sand bags to bed a rifle, & the "squeeze" to get any needed adjustments... seems like cheating to add one those new fangled gadgets...

I guess after I get my "roller" all dialed in, I expect to be able to shoot competitive groups with my roller & sand bags... or am I fooling myself ???
  
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38_Cal
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Re: can sand bags be competitive today ???
Reply #1 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 1:21pm
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Pope's machine rest from the 1890's gave both vertical and horizontal adjustment, using V-blocks front & rear.  It wouldn't be allowed in modern Schuetzen bench competition, as the two parts were solidly attached to the bench.   

There's nothing wrong with using sandbags on wooden blocks, as you see at some public ranges, other than they are difficult to adjust for elevation, and not very repeatable.  I've gotten some very good groups in years past with that sort of setup, but now that I own my own mechanical front rest, I wouldn't willingly go back.  (Of course, in "years past", my eyes were a lot younger and sharper, too!   Grin)   

David
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David Kaiser
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irish66
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Re: can sand bags be competitive today ???
Reply #2 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 2:08pm
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been  a long time since I used "SAND" bags and realyy would not want sand around my rifles.
irish
  
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tenx
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Re: can sand bags be competitive today ???
Reply #3 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 2:17pm
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  I guess I don't see your problem with using modern front rests. Back in Pope's day they used what called a machine rest, which was basically just that, and a lot better than what we use today.

  Today I would say that all bench shooters use a pedestal front rest with a sandbag under the butt stock. At least they do around here. Many also use a Pope style "sled" along with it.

  This is not to say that you can't get decent groups for hunting purposes using nothing but sandbags. I've sighted in many a rifle with sandbags off the top of a pickup hood. If you can shoot sub MOA groups off sandbags almost on demand then you will be competitive, and will win your share of the time. But remember, to shoot a 250 on the ASSRA targets you will need to be able to shoot 3/4 MOA for 10 shots at either 100 or 200 yds.

  Even with a good front rest you'll find when you bring the gun up to battery you will be slightly off where you want to aim. Now most people will just wiggle the rear bag around till their lined up and shoot. This is entirely wrong. You NEVER move the rear bag. Always the front. And this is why the better quality front rests have both horizontal and vertical adjustments.

PETE
  
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Re: can sand bags be competitive today ???
Reply #4 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 3:52pm
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Sand bags will work just fine for you, if you dont mind the inconvenience.  Attend some matches to find out. You'll have fun and get an education at the same time.  Smiley A roller is not competitive in top level SS bench match's at 100 or 200 yards.  Still fun to try though. Grin


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Schuetzendave
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Re: can sand bags be competitive today ???
Reply #5 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 3:57pm
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Joe:

Your new avitaar isn't as pretty from a distance.

But I agree sand bags can provide as much precision as the modified rests; although the fancy rests may be a bit more convenient to use, specially when your wind condition is changing rapidly.

Some of the rollers did pretty good at the ISSA Nationals this year.

Dave
  
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Re: can sand bags be competitive today ???
Reply #6 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 4:43pm
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Machine Rests are hardly "New fangled gadgets," I've seen Slug Rifles as well as Civil War Picket Rifles that were set up for front and rear mechanical rests, in fact I think most of those heavy muzzle loading rifles came with some sort of a machine rest.

Bob
  
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Re: can sand bags be competitive today ???
Reply #7 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 8:51pm
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MWM
Find a local match and spend some time looking over the equipment used. You will find everything from sand bags to old car jacks to sophisticated rack and pinion adjustable rests being used. Your equipment does not have to be state of the art to be competitive BUT you need to know HOW to use what you have to be competitive. The only way to do that is practice, practice and more practice either at your home range or a match.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: can sand bags be competitive today ???
Reply #8 - Sep 27th, 2008 at 7:57pm
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Shooting can be for fun too, so whatever you use be sure you're having a good time, and don't wrry as much if it's competitive or not.
  
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